he has to convince himself he's right about everything because it's the only way he can live with himself - otherwise he admits to the possibility he was wrong about killing his people.
That's brilliant; and I totally agree. Granted I have a huge soft spot for 10. He just breaks my heart.
Doctor was having to model himself on Rose, a theme that continued all the way through S2. He was trying to be human so he could reassure her, and offer her a human love. Right up to, "How long are you going to stay with me, then?" I think we can see him playing around with that. It would explain why, when he does swing back to being a Time Lord, he has a tough time controlling his darker impulses. If we know we tried to become something we are not for the sake of someone we idolised, and it ends badly, there's a natural tendency to overcompensate by swinging to the other extreme. Donna seemed to help him find the middle way and he was more or less okay until he lost her.
I just wish RTD had shown that. It would have made a much more satisfying conclusion. The end of the Time Lords could have been shown as a release, showing him that his decision to destroy them first time around was the right one and allowing him to move on without guilt. This is where I am very a-typical. As long as I can make it make sense in my head, I'm not all that bothered about it not being shown overtly. But I agree that it would have made the transition a lot smoother. OTOH, clinging onto himself for as long as he could was so Ten.
One of the most profound comments about Ten I have heard is that he has to convince himself he's right about everything because it's the only way he can live with himself - otherwise he admits to the possibility he was wrong about killing his people. That was MEEEEEE! \o/ (Well, I have said this. Others might have too, I shall not claim obvious-in-when-pointed-out insights as entirely my own...)
And surely, having that one, all-important decision vindicated would clear the way for him to become a
( ... )
I just wish RTD had shown that. It would have made a much more satisfying conclusion. The end of the Time Lords could have been shown as a release, showing him that his decision to destroy them first time around was the right one and allowing him to move on without guilt.
I spent a lot of time wishing RTD's DW stories were just a bit less ambiguous, just a bit clearer, but I've come to the conclusion that this just isn't how he wanted to tell them. The ambiguity is deliberate; he doesn't want clear-cut, satisfying conclusions. The end of Love and Monsters is exemplary, really. The terrible and the wonderful and how it's all mixed up and part of the same thing - life.
Besides, I think what the Doctor did ending the Time War is something so enormous that it's impossible to ever move on from it without guilt. I think Ten always knew the decision was... maybe not the right one, but certainly the necessary one, he just kept struggling against a universe that made such decisions necessary and gave him nothing in return, except more pain
( ... )
I love both his "I don't want to die" speeches/rants to Wilf--they felt truthful and consistent with everything we'd seen of Ten and his path (and were fantastically acted). But then, I have very little invested in seeing him in a heroic light.
Ten's most recent experiences of death are very final. John Smith's death was *exactly* what he describes above - he died, and the Doctor sauntered away, wearing his face. And he was dead. Because - despite John Smith being *somewhere* inside the Doctor - he was well and truly dead.
Oh, great observation.
Because Ten also feels quite entitled in a lot of ways. (IMHO) he feels that it is desperately unfair that he has to die - he's lost so much already (Rose, Joan, the Master, Jenny, River etc.) and does he also have to lose himself? (Why can't he control life and death? Ooooh, Timelord Victorious, you were only ever a tiny step away.)
I love 11, but this sort of thing is why 10 owns my soul. He's just so broken. And he's so pretty when he suffers. (Me? Shallow?)
Oh, great observation. Thank you. I felt it merited its own post...
I love 11, but this sort of thing is why 10 owns my soul. He's just so broken. And he's so pretty when he suffers. (Me? Shallow?) Heeee! He does break beautifully, and I love it. Although this is also why I think Eleven would probably win if I had to choose (not that I do! I can have them both!) - Ten is fascinating and gorgeously broken... But I like Eleven so much more. Eleven makes me feel safe which no other hero ever has.
Sorry, perusing your meta for the umpteenth time and reading comments.
Just thought I'd input that I too love Ten and Eleven quite equally, and frankly I don't think I could love either without the other, though I admit I like where he's at right now and wouldn't want that to change so soon. I definitely love me some broken characters. Alot (I think like 98% of all characters I've ever liked are broken or have been broken, to a certain degree). but for me personally, the best part is getting to see a broken character find the ability to take a step towards the light.
One of my pipe dreams is to see Matt and David on the same screen together in an episode, if only for predecessor and successor to look at what they'd become/where they came from.
Sorry, perusing your meta for the umpteenth time and reading comments. Oh please don't apologise! The comments are brilliant. :)
I definitely love me some broken characters. Alot (I think like 98% of all characters I've ever liked are broken or have been broken, to a certain degree). but for me personally, the best part is getting to see a broken character find the ability to take a step towards the light. *nods a lot* I think one reason I'm so enchanted by Eleven is that he's new - not in sense of 'Ooooh shiny!', but in the sense that I am very, very familiar with broken characters, and with seeing them slowly pick themselves up, but I've never really before seen what happens after they get over their traumas, if that makes sense. Eleven is OK. No other character I've loved has managed to move on to such a degree and it's wonderful to watch. :)
(Icon a homage to Angel - the original Billowy Coat King of Pain - and the fact that both Jack and Ten fit into his mould perfectly!)
i had a discussion about this with someone ages ago. here Oh thank you for that, it's excellent!
before that i was pretty ragey about it. Like, you're immortal, dude. Get over it. LOL! Um, yes. Personally I was more along the lines of 'Darling Ten, just get it over with. Promise you'll feel so much better afterwards...'
But of course he clung on, desperate and angry and FULL OF PAAAAAIN, for as long as he possibly could. :)
Comments 44
Oooh! Good thought!
Reply
Reply
Reply
That's brilliant; and I totally agree. Granted I have a huge soft spot for 10. He just breaks my heart.
Doctor was having to model himself on Rose, a theme that continued all the way through S2. He was trying to be human so he could reassure her, and offer her a human love. Right up to, "How long are you going to stay with me, then?" I think we can see him playing around with that. It would explain why, when he does swing back to being a Time Lord, he has a tough time controlling his darker impulses. If we know we tried to become something we are not for the sake of someone we idolised, and it ends badly, there's a natural tendency to overcompensate by swinging to the other extreme. Donna seemed to help him find the middle way and he was more or less okay until he lost her.
::nods::
Reply
This is where I am very a-typical. As long as I can make it make sense in my head, I'm not all that bothered about it not being shown overtly. But I agree that it would have made the transition a lot smoother. OTOH, clinging onto himself for as long as he could was so Ten.
One of the most profound comments about Ten I have heard is that he has to convince himself he's right about everything because it's the only way he can live with himself - otherwise he admits to the possibility he was wrong about killing his people.
That was MEEEEEE! \o/ (Well, I have said this. Others might have too, I shall not claim obvious-in-when-pointed-out insights as entirely my own...)
And surely, having that one, all-important decision vindicated would clear the way for him to become a ( ... )
Reply
I spent a lot of time wishing RTD's DW stories were just a bit less ambiguous, just a bit clearer, but I've come to the conclusion that this just isn't how he wanted to tell them. The ambiguity is deliberate; he doesn't want clear-cut, satisfying conclusions. The end of Love and Monsters is exemplary, really. The terrible and the wonderful and how it's all mixed up and part of the same thing - life.
Besides, I think what the Doctor did ending the Time War is something so enormous that it's impossible to ever move on from it without guilt. I think Ten always knew the decision was... maybe not the right one, but certainly the necessary one, he just kept struggling against a universe that made such decisions necessary and gave him nothing in return, except more pain ( ... )
Reply
Also, what ladymercury_10 said.
I love both his "I don't want to die" speeches/rants to Wilf--they felt truthful and consistent with everything we'd seen of Ten and his path (and were fantastically acted). But then, I have very little invested in seeing him in a heroic light.
Very unuseful comment. Here, have a fish: <>
Reply
*
*
*
<><
Tail fail.
Reply
*dies laughing*
FIIIIIIIISH!!!
<><
(Also I love using both of my Oncoming Storm icons...)
Reply
It's like a little story all contained in two little boxes yet saying so much.
*pets Ten* Perhaps he had a premonition about what was going to become of his hair.
Reply
Oh, great observation.
Because Ten also feels quite entitled in a lot of ways. (IMHO) he feels that it is desperately unfair that he has to die - he's lost so much already (Rose, Joan, the Master, Jenny, River etc.) and does he also have to lose himself? (Why can't he control life and death? Ooooh, Timelord Victorious, you were only ever a tiny step away.)
I love 11, but this sort of thing is why 10 owns my soul. He's just so broken. And he's so pretty when he suffers. (Me? Shallow?)
Reply
Thank you. I felt it merited its own post...
I love 11, but this sort of thing is why 10 owns my soul. He's just so broken. And he's so pretty when he suffers. (Me? Shallow?)
Heeee! He does break beautifully, and I love it. Although this is also why I think Eleven would probably win if I had to choose (not that I do! I can have them both!) - Ten is fascinating and gorgeously broken... But I like Eleven so much more. Eleven makes me feel safe which no other hero ever has.
Reply
Just thought I'd input that I too love Ten and Eleven quite equally, and frankly I don't think I could love either without the other, though I admit I like where he's at right now and wouldn't want that to change so soon. I definitely love me some broken characters. Alot (I think like 98% of all characters I've ever liked are broken or have been broken, to a certain degree). but for me personally, the best part is getting to see a broken character find the ability to take a step towards the light.
One of my pipe dreams is to see Matt and David on the same screen together in an episode, if only for predecessor and successor to look at what they'd become/where they came from.
Reply
Oh please don't apologise! The comments are brilliant. :)
I definitely love me some broken characters. Alot (I think like 98% of all characters I've ever liked are broken or have been broken, to a certain degree). but for me personally, the best part is getting to see a broken character find the ability to take a step towards the light.
*nods a lot* I think one reason I'm so enchanted by Eleven is that he's new - not in sense of 'Ooooh shiny!', but in the sense that I am very, very familiar with broken characters, and with seeing them slowly pick themselves up, but I've never really before seen what happens after they get over their traumas, if that makes sense. Eleven is OK. No other character I've loved has managed to move on to such a degree and it's wonderful to watch. :)
(Icon a homage to Angel - the original Billowy Coat King of Pain - and the fact that both Jack and Ten fit into his mould perfectly!)
Reply
before that i was pretty ragey about it. Like, you're immortal, dude. Get over it.
But that comment helped me see it differently.
Reply
Oh thank you for that, it's excellent!
before that i was pretty ragey about it. Like, you're immortal, dude. Get over it.
LOL! Um, yes. Personally I was more along the lines of 'Darling Ten, just get it over with. Promise you'll feel so much better afterwards...'
But of course he clung on, desperate and angry and FULL OF PAAAAAIN, for as long as he possibly could. :)
Reply
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment