Comments | elisi: He was being kind.

elisi

He was being kind.

Dec 18, 2010 20:49

green_maia has a very interesting post here about enjoyment of abuse of power versus abuse of power rooted in despair. This is just me turning thoughts over in my head, so lots of rambling. ETA: Or you can just read my reply to her post, since that's like the whole of this post in two lines...

( The Doctor's actions in Family of Blood. )

ten is meta catnip, ramblings, doctor who

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elisi December 18 2010, 20:59:12 UTC

Thank you! :)

solitary_summer December 18 2010, 22:33:47 UTC

What he has to do is what he always must do - continue, carrying the burden of loss. Only this time he lets the Family share that most painful and horrific of fates. And no, it's not just in any way. But to go back to a point in a different post: It is both an act of brokenness and despair - and it is vindictive cruelty and power abuse.

*nods* Ten is complicated. It's all mixed up, always 'and' rather than 'either/or'.

And it is just; not in a modern, humanitarian sense, but in an archaic 'an eye for an eye' way. It's the kind of punishment that is common in myths and fairytales. FoB always struck me as the episode where the ancient, non-human part of the Doctor's personality comes out most clearly. 'Evil' doesn't seem an adequate word ( ... )

elisi December 18 2010, 22:37:48 UTC

Love your comment, and will get to it later - possibly tomorrow. Need to think stuff over and not be half asleep.

ETA: OK, am back.

*nods* Ten is complicated. It's all mixed up, always 'and' rather than 'either/or'.
I think this ties in with his humanity (and how Rusty writes him) - nothing is ever simple.

And it is just; not in a modern, humanitarian sense, but in an archaic 'an eye for an eye' way. It's the kind of punishment that is common in myths and fairytales. FoB always struck me as the episode where the ancient, non-human part of the Doctor's personality comes out most clearly. 'Evil' doesn't seem an adequate word.
Ooooh this. Like I wrote here: 'I think that when looking at the-Doctor-as-God it is a very old idea of Godhood we have to grapple with. The Doctor is like one of the deities from Mount Olympus, coming down ‘disguised as a human’ but with an outlook and agenda that is utterly his own.' His motivation might be informed by his humanity, but his general outlook is very Other. The Lonely God is a good moniker, but ( ... )

solitary_summer December 19 2010, 22:01:20 UTC

Lonely God is a good moniker, but he's not *the* God, just *a* God, if that makes sense...

Absolutely.

Going onto the topic of power, then the Master *is* his dark mirror - the Master is what he could become, and WoM shows the first step down that slipperly slope.

In EoT, when Ten says to the Master, 'I wonder what I'd be, without you', for the longest time I didn't really understand what he meant by that. (Slashy subtext aside, obviously.) He needs someone to show him what not to be.

elisi December 20 2010, 11:26:48 UTC

In EoT, when Ten says to the Master, 'I wonder what I'd be, without you', for the longest time I didn't really understand what he meant by that. (Slashy subtext aside, obviously.) He needs someone to show him what not to be.
*nods a lot* I think the point is continued in this part:

Wilf: [offering gun again]: Then kill him first.

Doctor [raising eyebrows]: And that’s how the Master started.

I think Ten, in particular, is painfully aware (especially post WoM) how easy it would be to become the Master. (Have you read Things You Don't Want in the Night, btw? Truly excellent!)

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ever_neutral December 19 2010, 00:05:59 UTC

OK now I agree with this too. Clearly I am easily convinced by thoughtful meta.

P.S. OMG I'm listening to "Running Up That Hill" right now too.

elisi December 19 2010, 08:30:35 UTC

OK now I agree with this too. Clearly I am easily convinced by thoughtful meta.
Well I was building on what came before, so it wasn't a big stretch.

P.S. OMG I'm listening to "Running Up That Hill" right now too.
Oooooh, adore that song. And watch the vid I linked to. Will give you shivers!

zanthinegirl December 19 2010, 00:44:18 UTC

It is both an act of brokenness and despair - and it is vindictive cruelty and power abuse.

::nods::

I love Human Nature/FoB. One of my favorites from that season. So much to ponder!

elisi December 19 2010, 08:29:05 UTC

I love Human Nature/FoB. One of my favorites from that season. So much to ponder!
There really is!

promethia_tenk December 19 2010, 04:18:42 UTC

Well, you've convinced me that I need to go watch these episodes again, for the sake of my Leadworth AU at least, and probably also for broader spec.

Not that that's really a chore--I quite like these ones.

elisi December 19 2010, 08:28:08 UTC

Well, you've convinced me that I need to go watch these episodes again, for the sake of my Leadworth AU at least, and probably also for broader spec.
Really? Well that pleases me very much. Although Leadworth-AU!Doctor is impossibly different from John Smith... Hmmm. *ponders*

Not that that's really a chore--I quite like these ones.
I still remember watching S3 originally and at the halfway mark getting rather worried since most of the episodes had been rather... not good. And then THESE episodes showed up and I flailied. :)

promethia_tenk December 19 2010, 17:14:48 UTC

Really? Well that pleases me very much. Although Leadworth-AU!Doctor is impossibly different from John Smith... Hmmm. *ponders*
Indeed. And if I were simply writing happy fluffy drabbles, I'd just let that stand. But for the story proper, I'm thinking, I really need to give this a closer look. The whole thing is being driven by Amy, it's true, but I'm looking for an internally-consistent, emotionally satisfying resolution on all sides, and when it comes to the Doctor, there are a lot of ways in which this is a revisiting of the HN/FOB situation with different events driving it. I think I probably need to do some work pinning down exactly how my story is different and why.

I may have to shake you down for meta at some point . . .

I still remember watching S3 originally and at the halfway mark getting rather worried since most of the episodes had been rather... not good. And then THESE episodes showed up and I flailied. :)It probably has the most inconsistent quality of any season, doesn't it? Although on average, I think it ( ... )

elisi December 19 2010, 17:24:55 UTC

I may have to shake you down for meta at some point . . .
You know where to find me... (Also, I'm finding your thoughts v. v. interesting. Looking forward to any thoughts you might like to share.)

It probably has the most inconsistent quality of any season, doesn't it? Although on average, I think it fares pretty well.
Yup, a lot of keepers there, you just need to overlook the less-good aspects. Although thematically it holds together beautifully, so I love it just for that. :)

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