I've never been able to work out why Cordy/Jasmine wanted Angelus back, especially since Jasmine seemed perfectly happy with Angel.
Oh, one minor quibble, Cordy does state her belief in the separation of Angel and Angelus as early as AtS1. I put this down to her really not liking the idea of working for a psychotic killer.
And I don't know why Jasmine wanted Angelus either - it's my major quibble with the whole thing. He's apparently *crucial*, but I've still to see anyone explain why.
Cordy does state her belief in the separation of Angel and Angelus as early as AtS1 Gah! It's been far too long since I've watched AtS. But your explanation sounds very sensible - knowing that your boss has an evil alter ego has got to be unsettling. Especially for her - Doyle was half-deomn, Wesley was a watcher, Gunn a skilled vamp killer, but Cordy was rather lacking when it came to fighting.
And I don't know why Jasmine wanted Angelus either - it's my major quibble with the whole thing. He's apparently *crucial*, but I've still to see anyone explain why. It's the same situation with Spike and the First. What does the First want Spike for? To kill a few Sunnydale residents and turn them? Seems to me that the vamps of Sunnydale were already doing that quite well themselves. I suspect they (Angel & Spike) needed to be shoe horned into the plot and ME was hoping nobody would realize that they hadn't come up with a good explanation.
Well, I think it was the fact that they were souled vampires was what made them targets. I think both boys were crucial in the fight of good vs evil, and once Spike also became souled he then became a contestant in the 'souled vampire who plays a major role in the Apocalypse' sweepstakes. For The First, to have a souled vampire on his side may have tipped the outcome his way - after all, in the end it was Spike that closed the Hellmouth and defeated The First Evil.
For Jasmine, it may have been that by removing Angel's soul she thought she was taking him out of the game as a major player only to have that plan come back and bite her on the ass when Angelus killed The Beast. Her Shiny Happy People plan was working for a while, but then Fred was able to break the spell, and Angel was back in the game. And it was his appealing to Connor that brought about Jasmine's destruction - as well as Connor's
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Well, I think it was the fact that they were souled vampires was what made them targets. I think I pretty much agree with everything you wrote. And The First only apparently started to move after Spike got his soul...
About Angelus then copykween had the brilliant thought, that maybe Jasmine wanted Angelus to kill Connor (since killing his family was pretty much Angelus's MO) and thus get rid of the only person who could kill her... I really like that. I think - it been too long since I watched S4, so I can't remember all the twists.
I'm not so sure that using Angelus to kill Connor was any part of the plan; at least I never got that impression. If anything, using Connor to kill Angel was more on her agenda. But it was a lovely, weird season with more Jossian unanswered questions, and one I really enjoyed. :)
If anything, using Connor to kill Angel was more on her agenda Yes, I do agree with that. (And considering that Angel went on to defeat her, she was right to be worried.)
The first Angel episode I ever watched was 'Home', before going back and watching all the episodes in order. It was fascinating to see it all come together. :)
I know I'm really late to this convo (over 2 years, hee) but I saw this linked on gabrielleabelle's journal and dropped by. So here's a few thoughts:
He promptly told the truth, making everyone scratch their heads, since y'know - nothing happened when Angelus met the Beast.
Angelus witnessed the Svear priestesses banishing the Beast. If Jasmine!Cordy wanted to keep using her minion, she needed Angel to not know the one way to get rid of the Beast besides killing him with the dagger made of his own rocky flesh.
And I don't know why Jasmine wanted Angelus either - it's my major quibble with the whole thing. He's apparently *crucial*, but I've still to see anyone explain why.I think again it was a distraction. Holding Angelus hostage when you have his soul makes him easier to manipulate than Angel. And she needed Angel distracted from the growing bun in her oven. As soon as the Beast and Angelus issues are resolved, it takes Angel one episode to focus on what's been there the whole time - deep down
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Angelus witnessed the Svear priestesses banishing the Beast. Oooh, that's true. Why'd I never think of that?
Distract everyone with the Beast and Angelus so they don't notice Cordy's mystical pregnancy and start to get wise. Yes, that's what I'm thinking too - Angel even says it at some point: "If he [Angelus] is here, then I'm not." (from memory)
Anyway, thank you so much for your comment, it's lovely to get comments on old posts. :)
I've never been able to work out why Cordy/Jasmine wanted Angelus back, especially since Jasmine seemed perfectly happy with Angel.
Oh, one minor quibble, Cordy does state her belief in the separation of Angel and Angelus as early as AtS1. I put this down to her really not liking the idea of working for a psychotic killer.
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And I don't know why Jasmine wanted Angelus either - it's my major quibble with the whole thing. He's apparently *crucial*, but I've still to see anyone explain why.
Cordy does state her belief in the separation of Angel and Angelus as early as AtS1
Gah! It's been far too long since I've watched AtS. But your explanation sounds very sensible - knowing that your boss has an evil alter ego has got to be unsettling. Especially for her - Doyle was half-deomn, Wesley was a watcher, Gunn a skilled vamp killer, but Cordy was rather lacking when it came to fighting.
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It's the same situation with Spike and the First. What does the First want Spike for? To kill a few Sunnydale residents and turn them? Seems to me that the vamps of Sunnydale were already doing that quite well themselves.
I suspect they (Angel & Spike) needed to be shoe horned into the plot and ME was hoping nobody would realize that they hadn't come up with a good explanation.
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And I guess it was silly shoe horning Angelus into S4, but it was fun too. I just wish I could fanwank it away somehow...
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For Jasmine, it may have been that by removing Angel's soul she thought she was taking him out of the game as a major player only to have that plan come back and bite her on the ass when Angelus killed The Beast. Her Shiny Happy People plan was working for a while, but then Fred was able to break the spell, and Angel was back in the game. And it was his appealing to Connor that brought about Jasmine's destruction - as well as Connor's ( ... )
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I think I pretty much agree with everything you wrote. And The First only apparently started to move after Spike got his soul...
About Angelus then copykween had the brilliant thought, that maybe Jasmine wanted Angelus to kill Connor (since killing his family was pretty much Angelus's MO) and thus get rid of the only person who could kill her... I really like that. I think - it been too long since I watched S4, so I can't remember all the twists.
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Yes, I do agree with that. (And considering that Angel went on to defeat her, she was right to be worried.)
The first Angel episode I ever watched was 'Home', before going back and watching all the episodes in order. It was fascinating to see it all come together. :)
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He promptly told the truth, making everyone scratch their heads, since y'know - nothing happened when Angelus met the Beast.
Angelus witnessed the Svear priestesses banishing the Beast. If Jasmine!Cordy wanted to keep using her minion, she needed Angel to not know the one way to get rid of the Beast besides killing him with the dagger made of his own rocky flesh.
And I don't know why Jasmine wanted Angelus either - it's my major quibble with the whole thing. He's apparently *crucial*, but I've still to see anyone explain why.I think again it was a distraction. Holding Angelus hostage when you have his soul makes him easier to manipulate than Angel. And she needed Angel distracted from the growing bun in her oven. As soon as the Beast and Angelus issues are resolved, it takes Angel one episode to focus on what's been there the whole time - deep down ( ... )
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Oooh, that's true. Why'd I never think of that?
Distract everyone with the Beast and Angelus so they don't notice Cordy's mystical pregnancy and start to get wise.
Yes, that's what I'm thinking too - Angel even says it at some point: "If he [Angelus] is here, then I'm not." (from memory)
Anyway, thank you so much for your comment, it's lovely to get comments on old posts. :)
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