First of all, I agree with everything you said. Secondly, have you read these posts about AYW, especially the one by SpikeJones aka jonesiexxx. Sits back to wait for Slayer line post, tapping foot impatiently.
Oooh lovely reading! And I have read the post by jonesiexxx - I even have it in my memories. :) (I considered linking to it, but I really don't want people to start arguing over all the different aspects of AYW. Life's too short!).
I quite agree that Spike would make a rubbish international arms dealer. Everyone knows this, it seems, except the ME writers. I am pretty sure they meant us to believe he was the Doctor - thought they'd sown all these big, honking clues (Buffy saying his crypt was looking nice with all the carpets in DT, his saying he had money to take her away from the Doublemeat Palace etc). However, they did a very lousy job for all the reasons you stated.
In actual fact, there's an 'official' AtS book called Cursed which takes the premise that Spike wasn't actually the Doctor but some sort of middle man (much more convincing, as you say) and runs with it, and since these books are endorsed by Fox (they even dictate how you can write the characters) I'm assuming that even they know the plot of this entire episode stinks something rotten.
, his saying he had money to take her away from the Doublemeat Palace etc)
Actually he said he can get money, which adds to the argument that he was hired to keep those eggs, and knowing Spike, what they were was of no interest to him. All he wanted was cash to give to Buffy.
Agree entirely with what you say. I’d forgotten I once wrote a fic called FAR TOO LATE about same problem. i’ve put it on my LJ if you’ve got time to cast it a glance.
I read your fic and I can definitely see the attraction! (I wrote a tiny little fic accomplishing something similar: A Round of Kick The Riley). But my love of canon and non-bashing tendencies sadly do not permit me to embrace it fully. *sigh*
Excellent post, and I agree completely. The idea that Spike was some kind of mastermind arms dealer was ridiculous. Spike isn't stupid, but I do think he's lazy and only puts forth the effort needed to accomplish whatever his current goal is. In this case, it was getting money for Buffy so she didn't have to work at a job Spike considered beneath her. If he put out the word that he'd do anything for money but kill humans, then he would be the perfect foil for 'The Doctor'.
Spike isn't stupid, but I do think he's lazy and only puts forth the effort needed to accomplish whatever his current goal is. Agreed! :) Although of course Buffy would never have taken his money - she would know better than that!
If he put out the word that he'd do anything for money but kill humans, then he would be the perfect foil for 'The Doctor'. Exactly!
I'm quite happy to believe Spike was the Doctor, as he showed in The Yoko Factor, he can lie quite effectively when he thinks it doesn't really matter. What I don't believe is that the Doctor is meant to be some top ranking international arms dealer. All Riley says is that he's a dealer but to me that word implies more 'guy who peddles dope at the local pub' than 'head honcho of the Medellin cartel. ' Which is to say I agree with you but I think ME would as well.
the suvolte demons are an affront to any person in possession of a brain
I actually have a half written essay somewhere which demonstrates that everything we get told or shown about Suvolte demons is in fact completely consistent with current life history theory. Real animals do some pretty weird things. But I still have no idea why anyone would think they'd make usable biological weapons.
All Riley says is that he's a dealer True. But then Sam adds that there are foreign governments interested in the eggs... I can't see Spike being that well connected.
Yes Spike *can* lie, but he's better at the slight spin of truth than flat out denials. And if he really was the Doctor he should have gotten Buffy right of of his crypt the second she mentioned the name. Not that he'd take the name 'Doctor' anyway (what with Doc besting him in The Gift...). Anyway, it's bad writing. I'm just trying to make sense of at least a tiny part of it!
I actually have a half written essay I would *love* to read that! It's mostly the 'nearly extinct breeders' that gets me. But if you could explain it, I'd be thrilled! :)
They never say the doctor is dealing directly with the governments. I imagine the Sunnydale affiliate of W&H doing most of the negotiating. Or maybe Spike just put out the word on e(vil)Bay and then forgot what his user name was. Because he never directly lies. Buffy doesn’t asks him if he’s the Doctor either before or after and when Riley accuses him he deflects it by pretending not to know what he means. Or he really has forgotten :-)
Not that he'd take the name 'Doctor' anyway ‘Doc’ always makes me think of Bugs Bunny rather than ‘Doctor’ so this argument feels a bit like Dawn not being able to tolerate Xander talking about the guy in the Jacket (because that’s what I called him in my head before I knew his real name).
It's mostly the 'nearly extinct breeders' that gets me.That’s actually one of the easier things to explain if you’re a biologist (and an irredeemable geek
( ... )
I imagine the Sunnydale affiliate of W&H doing most of the negotiating Possibly. But they know that money has been exchanged. Still, I can't really believe that Spike would have the right contacts. (Also can hardly believe that I'm actually trying to make sense of this! *g*)
Re. responding to the name, then I watched the whole thing veeeeeeeeery carefully. And if Spike really was The Doctor, then he has managed a whole new level of zen! (And as for the Doc/Doctor thing, then that's just a little aside. Which incidentally it often gets used in fanfic to prove that it was The Trio who were responsible (The Doctor=Doctor Who).)
And thank you very much for the extinct breeder explanation. That actually makes sense (esp since I remember that it came to the Hellmouth to breed or spawn or whatever. I guess that would be the banana!)
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Sits back to wait for Slayer line post, tapping foot impatiently.
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And thank you for commenting. :)
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In actual fact, there's an 'official' AtS book called Cursed which takes the premise that Spike wasn't actually the Doctor but some sort of middle man (much more convincing, as you say) and runs with it, and since these books are endorsed by Fox (they even dictate how you can write the characters) I'm assuming that even they know the plot of this entire episode stinks something rotten.
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Actually he said he can get money, which adds to the argument that he was hired to keep those eggs, and knowing Spike, what they were was of no interest to him. All he wanted was cash to give to Buffy.
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Yay! :)
I read your fic and I can definitely see the attraction! (I wrote a tiny little fic accomplishing something similar: A Round of Kick The Riley). But my love of canon and non-bashing tendencies sadly do not permit me to embrace it fully. *sigh*
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And Riley Finn is a big wanker. *g*
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Agreed! :) Although of course Buffy would never have taken his money - she would know better than that!
If he put out the word that he'd do anything for money but kill humans, then he would be the perfect foil for 'The Doctor'.
Exactly!
As for your last point - see icon! *g*
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the suvolte demons are an affront to any person in possession of a brain
I actually have a half written essay somewhere which demonstrates that everything we get told or shown about Suvolte demons is in fact completely consistent with current life history theory. Real animals do some pretty weird things. But I still have no idea why anyone would think they'd make usable biological weapons.
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True. But then Sam adds that there are foreign governments interested in the eggs... I can't see Spike being that well connected.
Yes Spike *can* lie, but he's better at the slight spin of truth than flat out denials. And if he really was the Doctor he should have gotten Buffy right of of his crypt the second she mentioned the name. Not that he'd take the name 'Doctor' anyway (what with Doc besting him in The Gift...). Anyway, it's bad writing. I'm just trying to make sense of at least a tiny part of it!
I actually have a half written essay
I would *love* to read that! It's mostly the 'nearly extinct breeders' that gets me. But if you could explain it, I'd be thrilled! :)
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Not that he'd take the name 'Doctor' anyway
‘Doc’ always makes me think of Bugs Bunny rather than ‘Doctor’ so this argument feels a bit like Dawn not being able to tolerate Xander talking about the guy in the Jacket (because that’s what I called him in my head before I knew his real name).
It's mostly the 'nearly extinct breeders' that gets me.That’s actually one of the easier things to explain if you’re a biologist (and an irredeemable geek ( ... )
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Possibly. But they know that money has been exchanged. Still, I can't really believe that Spike would have the right contacts. (Also can hardly believe that I'm actually trying to make sense of this! *g*)
Re. responding to the name, then I watched the whole thing veeeeeeeeery carefully. And if Spike really was The Doctor, then he has managed a whole new level of zen! (And as for the Doc/Doctor thing, then that's just a little aside. Which incidentally it often gets used in fanfic to prove that it was The Trio who were responsible (The Doctor=Doctor Who).)
And thank you very much for the extinct breeder explanation. That actually makes sense (esp since I remember that it came to the Hellmouth to breed or spawn or whatever. I guess that would be the banana!)
And now I *really* need to go to bed!
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