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red_satin_doll June 24 2014, 18:48:44 UTC
Excellent points re: Judge vs Acathla.

As for the falling in love with Buffy. That was set up since s2, starting with obsession, moving on into respect, up until the point where Drusilla left him because she could see what was going to happen.

I find FFL turrrribly interesting in this regard - the deaths of Xin Rong and Nikki at Spike's hands are depicted in a very sexualized manner. He makes love to Dru while Xin Rong's body is still warm, offering her blood on his hands for Dru to suck, and he pretty much "mounts" Nikki (who wears the sexy costume of a '70's blackspoitation heroine like Pam Grier) before breaking her neck.

I'm always surprised when I point this out to other fans and they never noticed the sexualized aspect of it, esp re: Nikki, but as you point out Spike is already obsessed with Slayers. He meant to make Buffy the third feather in his cap; if he'd had a chip or a soul when he'd met Xin Rong or Nikki would he have tried to court them instead of kill them? The feelings/energy of his Slayer obsession have in essence been sublimated to feelings of lust for Buffy; genuine love comes much later.

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eilowyn June 25 2014, 05:16:16 UTC
I'm always surprised when I point this out to other fans and they never noticed the sexualized aspect of it, esp re: Nikki, but as you point out Spike is already obsessed with Slayers. He meant to make Buffy the third feather in his cap; if he'd had a chip or a soul when he'd met Xin Rong or Nikki would he have tried to court them instead of kill them? The feelings/energy of his Slayer obsession have in essence been sublimated to feelings of lust for Buffy; genuine love comes much later.

Wow. Never, ever thought of it that way.

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This isn red_satin_doll June 25 2014, 12:43:48 UTC
Wow. Never, ever thought of it that way.

That's what that whole line he's feeding her is about. He's playing a head game. "You're a little in love with death" Telling her how he killed Xin Rong and Nikki - danced with them, the way he dances with Buffy -and then trying to kiss Buffy.

He's a vampire, the self-styled "Big Bad", ergo he represents Death, ergo, he's trying to talk her into being in love with him, to convince her that she's gonna die anyway, why not commit "le petit mort" with him first? (And as someone else in fandom asked, what about his "Death wish"? )

The thing is far as we know Buffy is the only Slayer he's had a conversation with that went beyond "I kill you". He knows more than most about Slayers in terms of fighting techniques and studying their moves but he knows jack-all about what they think and feel.

He says she's the only Slayer with friends and family but Xin Rong's dying words are "Tell my mother I am sorry." Not Watcher. We don't know about her life, and neither does Spike. And keep in mind this is only two Slayers - three counting Buffy - we know that he's met/fought/interacted with in a 100+ years. (four counting poor Kendra, and he didn't know he'd met Faith in WAY) If most Slayers don't make it to 25- that's a new Slayer being called every 0-10 years. We don't know about any of them and we can't say that Spike does either.

So he's observant, yes, but Buffy and her friends are the first Slayer "family" he's really gotten to observe for a length of time and actually interact with, have conversations with, observe in situations outside of life and death fights. He's not quite the expert on Slayer psychology that he makes himself out to be or Buffy presumes him to be. AND THAT'S the point - to me anyway. Giles doesn't have this information or if he is, he's not sharing. Outside of the dream quest all he can offer is training and yoga lessons.

I'd go out on a limb and say that for all that he loves her and even admires her, Giles doesn't respect her mind as much as Spike does. But Spike is still coming into it with an agenda of his own whenever he opens his mouth.

Which is one of the things that makes him an awesome character IMO - HELLO TO THE FLAWS.

I realize of course that part of this is my interpretation based on the writer's S5 retcon that he was always into Buffy but it fits pretty nicely. He had a very sexualized vibe in S2 anyway, so I don't have to squint that hard.

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