I think the thing with the judge is, that well Spike's smart. And I don't think that he ever thinks the judge would actually be able to destroy the world. In the end it's just some big demon.
Sure it'll cause tons of destruction, kill loads of people, but in the end someone'll take it down. just look at how easily Buffy took him down once she had the proper weaponry.
Acathla on the other hand would genuinely have pulled the entire world into hell, destroying everything Spike loves about earth.
Spike's issue at that point in time isn't with causing pain, suffering and destruction. He's a vampire, that just comes with it.
It's like he tells Buffy in Becoming, It's a way of talking big, "I'm going to destroy the world" when what they really mean is, I'm going to have some fun causing chaos.
As for the falling in love with Buffy. That was set up since s2, starting with obsession, moving on into respect, up until the point where Drusilla left him because she could see what was going to happen.
And where the chip is concerned, I think that it used Spike's own senses to determine who was human and who wasn't.
I don't know, maybe it's the fact that I felt Wesley got less and less interesting as his arc moved on that makes me put him so low on any list I'd make in regards to Whedon characters.
He started out funny, became interesting up to the middle of s3 of Angel. And then he turned into broodboy junior and basically got ruined when he lost all hints of humanity in s3
As for the falling in love with Buffy. That was set up since s2, starting with obsession, moving on into respect, up until the point where Drusilla left him because she could see what was going to happen.
I find FFL turrrribly interesting in this regard - the deaths of Xin Rong and Nikki at Spike's hands are depicted in a very sexualized manner. He makes love to Dru while Xin Rong's body is still warm, offering her blood on his hands for Dru to suck, and he pretty much "mounts" Nikki (who wears the sexy costume of a '70's blackspoitation heroine like Pam Grier) before breaking her neck.
I'm always surprised when I point this out to other fans and they never noticed the sexualized aspect of it, esp re: Nikki, but as you point out Spike is already obsessed with Slayers. He meant to make Buffy the third feather in his cap; if he'd had a chip or a soul when he'd met Xin Rong or Nikki would he have tried to court them instead of kill them? The feelings/energy of his Slayer obsession have in essence been sublimated to feelings of lust for Buffy; genuine love comes much later.
I'm always surprised when I point this out to other fans and they never noticed the sexualized aspect of it, esp re: Nikki, but as you point out Spike is already obsessed with Slayers. He meant to make Buffy the third feather in his cap; if he'd had a chip or a soul when he'd met Xin Rong or Nikki would he have tried to court them instead of kill them? The feelings/energy of his Slayer obsession have in essence been sublimated to feelings of lust for Buffy; genuine love comes much later.
That's what that whole line he's feeding her is about. He's playing a head game. "You're a little in love with death" Telling her how he killed Xin Rong and Nikki - danced with them, the way he dances with Buffy -and then trying to kiss Buffy.
He's a vampire, the self-styled "Big Bad", ergo he represents Death, ergo, he's trying to talk her into being in love with him, to convince her that she's gonna die anyway, why not commit "le petit mort" with him first? (And as someone else in fandom asked, what about his "Death wish"? )
The thing is far as we know Buffy is the only Slayer he's had a conversation with that went beyond "I kill you". He knows more than most about Slayers in terms of fighting techniques and studying their moves but he knows jack-all about what they think and feel.
He says she's the only Slayer with friends and family but Xin Rong's dying words are "Tell my mother I am sorry." Not Watcher. We don't know about her life, and neither does Spike. And keep in mind this is only two Slayers - three counting Buffy - we know that he's met/fought/interacted with in a 100+ years. (four counting poor Kendra, and he didn't know he'd met Faith in WAY) If most Slayers don't make it to 25- that's a new Slayer being called every 0-10 years. We don't know about any of them and we can't say that Spike does either.
So he's observant, yes, but Buffy and her friends are the first Slayer "family" he's really gotten to observe for a length of time and actually interact with, have conversations with, observe in situations outside of life and death fights. He's not quite the expert on Slayer psychology that he makes himself out to be or Buffy presumes him to be. AND THAT'S the point - to me anyway. Giles doesn't have this information or if he is, he's not sharing. Outside of the dream quest all he can offer is training and yoga lessons.
I'd go out on a limb and say that for all that he loves her and even admires her, Giles doesn't respect her mind as much as Spike does. But Spike is still coming into it with an agenda of his own whenever he opens his mouth.
Which is one of the things that makes him an awesome character IMO - HELLO TO THE FLAWS.
I realize of course that part of this is my interpretation based on the writer's S5 retcon that he was always into Buffy but it fits pretty nicely. He had a very sexualized vibe in S2 anyway, so I don't have to squint that hard.
Sure it'll cause tons of destruction, kill loads of people, but in the end someone'll take it down. just look at how easily Buffy took him down once she had the proper weaponry.
Acathla on the other hand would genuinely have pulled the entire world into hell, destroying everything Spike loves about earth.
Spike's issue at that point in time isn't with causing pain, suffering and destruction. He's a vampire, that just comes with it.
It's like he tells Buffy in Becoming, It's a way of talking big, "I'm going to destroy the world" when what they really mean is, I'm going to have some fun causing chaos.
As for the falling in love with Buffy. That was set up since s2, starting with obsession, moving on into respect, up until the point where Drusilla left him because she could see what was going to happen.
And where the chip is concerned, I think that it used Spike's own senses to determine who was human and who wasn't.
I don't know, maybe it's the fact that I felt Wesley got less and less interesting as his arc moved on that makes me put him so low on any list I'd make in regards to Whedon characters.
He started out funny, became interesting up to the middle of s3 of Angel. And then he turned into broodboy junior and basically got ruined when he lost all hints of humanity in s3
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As for the falling in love with Buffy. That was set up since s2, starting with obsession, moving on into respect, up until the point where Drusilla left him because she could see what was going to happen.
I find FFL turrrribly interesting in this regard - the deaths of Xin Rong and Nikki at Spike's hands are depicted in a very sexualized manner. He makes love to Dru while Xin Rong's body is still warm, offering her blood on his hands for Dru to suck, and he pretty much "mounts" Nikki (who wears the sexy costume of a '70's blackspoitation heroine like Pam Grier) before breaking her neck.
I'm always surprised when I point this out to other fans and they never noticed the sexualized aspect of it, esp re: Nikki, but as you point out Spike is already obsessed with Slayers. He meant to make Buffy the third feather in his cap; if he'd had a chip or a soul when he'd met Xin Rong or Nikki would he have tried to court them instead of kill them? The feelings/energy of his Slayer obsession have in essence been sublimated to feelings of lust for Buffy; genuine love comes much later.
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Wow. Never, ever thought of it that way.
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That's what that whole line he's feeding her is about. He's playing a head game. "You're a little in love with death" Telling her how he killed Xin Rong and Nikki - danced with them, the way he dances with Buffy -and then trying to kiss Buffy.
He's a vampire, the self-styled "Big Bad", ergo he represents Death, ergo, he's trying to talk her into being in love with him, to convince her that she's gonna die anyway, why not commit "le petit mort" with him first? (And as someone else in fandom asked, what about his "Death wish"? )
The thing is far as we know Buffy is the only Slayer he's had a conversation with that went beyond "I kill you". He knows more than most about Slayers in terms of fighting techniques and studying their moves but he knows jack-all about what they think and feel.
He says she's the only Slayer with friends and family but Xin Rong's dying words are "Tell my mother I am sorry." Not Watcher. We don't know about her life, and neither does Spike. And keep in mind this is only two Slayers - three counting Buffy - we know that he's met/fought/interacted with in a 100+ years. (four counting poor Kendra, and he didn't know he'd met Faith in WAY) If most Slayers don't make it to 25- that's a new Slayer being called every 0-10 years. We don't know about any of them and we can't say that Spike does either.
So he's observant, yes, but Buffy and her friends are the first Slayer "family" he's really gotten to observe for a length of time and actually interact with, have conversations with, observe in situations outside of life and death fights. He's not quite the expert on Slayer psychology that he makes himself out to be or Buffy presumes him to be. AND THAT'S the point - to me anyway. Giles doesn't have this information or if he is, he's not sharing. Outside of the dream quest all he can offer is training and yoga lessons.
I'd go out on a limb and say that for all that he loves her and even admires her, Giles doesn't respect her mind as much as Spike does. But Spike is still coming into it with an agenda of his own whenever he opens his mouth.
Which is one of the things that makes him an awesome character IMO - HELLO TO THE FLAWS.
I realize of course that part of this is my interpretation based on the writer's S5 retcon that he was always into Buffy but it fits pretty nicely. He had a very sexualized vibe in S2 anyway, so I don't have to squint that hard.
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