Wow, I just read everyone's comments on the update com.
Sometimes I just think fandom is stupid. And I think there was a lot of entitled ranting going on. You were right. It's not that people don't have a right to complain, it's that what they're complaining about is stupid.
'How dare the story not do what I want it to!! Hussie WASTED all my VALUABLE time!!'
Anyways, here's what I posted there:
I'm interested in the implications of Hussie's discussion of the 'Seer' role and how that applies to not just the Seer of Mind but the Seer of Light.
First Doc Scratch spent time drawing parallels between Rose and Vriska (Light) and now we get a discussion on Seers (Rose and Terezi). So I want to know what's up with Rose.
I also hope that Vriska isn't really dead. Her wound seems to parallel John's, and they're both characters who have used the game in a similar manner to seek self improvement/godhood/greatness (even if John is only doing so at Vriska's instruction) rather than focusing on defeating Jack/the game. Anyways, she's definitely a character who moves things along, not only plotwise but also in creating an overall emotional arch to the story.
The only thing is that I'm having trouble believing that death has any meaning in Homestuck. So it's not effecting me emotionally in the same way. I suspect I'm not the only one, so it will be interesting to see what will come next.
It was my bad, really. It was late and I was irritated because the fandom as a whole is pretty ridiculous about this stuff. (Apparently Terezi is more of a bluh bluh huge bitch than Vriska instead of just also morally dubious, this is a hint that Eridan will be back, etc etc). mspa_updates could have responded more gracefully, but you should have seen the other fora where Homestuck discussion happens. Absolutely batshit, and I don't use the word lightly. Anyway, getting in that argument was a pretty uncharacteristic move for me to make, and I think I regret being so blunt about the whole thing. That place is still the best for actual Homestuck discussion.
In my opinion, there is no way that Vriska is really dead. Her death is a perfect parallel of John's: both were unexpectedly outside of a proper battle, so that eliminates the possibility of a heroic death right there. As for Just, I think that probably the reasons for her killing and the intent of the person who pulled it off are probably a big factor. When Vriska killed Tavros, it was entirely justified by troll standards, so Terezi can't hold it against her (which is why she was so placid about Vriska admitting to having done it). There may be an argument for preemptive justice, but not even the most rabid hater could pretend that Vriska intended for Jack to follow her trail and kill her friends. Troll law probably doesn't care too much about motive, of course.
I think that Vriska will meet John in the dreambubbles, since both of them are dead and since time is all weird there. And hopefully Tavros as well, so that those two can resolve some of their issues. And then she will be back as healthy as ever.
See? You are actually analyzing this intellectually, instead of going straight to crazy. I think you were correct in everything you said. People are reacting stupidly.
I've never been super-involved in any fandoms, partially because of the crazy inherent in many of them, but I will say this about the Homestuck fandom: I think it is a) younger than most fandoms I've been involved in, b) more reactionary than most fandoms, c) has more fanon floating around than most places and d) feels that the have a right to contribute to the story. The last possibly comes from the early interactive nature of Homestuck. But people get way, way, too worked up about plot twists. We only get a few panels a day - it's way too early to tell where the story is going, or the overall implications of one action to the story as a whole. (Besides, in this case it is Doc Scratch telling the story - you think he's a totally serious person? Or do you think he loves a joke?) People seem to have this sense of ownership over the story (often coming out the worst in fanon bullshit) that is expressed in a really negative way.
I think all these things contribute to make the Homestuck fandom a stupider place than many fandoms are. I mean, these people don't seem to know the difference between a) criticism of a plot turn and b) bitching about how dare Hussie waste our time with this!!
There are other ways this is expressed, particularly the younger nature of the fandom. I'm not used to that - I'm used to the fandoms I'm in being upon average older than me or at least having a good variety of ages. If you try to find fanfic in Homestuck, it really shows. It's really hard to find stuff that's long, plotty, introspective, non-cliche-riddled. It just shows immaturity and inexperience. And so I think youth also explains people's bad behaviour.
Why would anyone think that about Terezi? I mean, I'm a huge Vriska fan, but I like her for her ridiculous decisions, constant mistakes, and overall huge bitchiness. Terezi is not like that at all. Vriska's motivation is overwhelmingly self-interest. That's what makes her bluh bluh huge bitch. It's also what makes her an interesting character. Terezi is manipulative, sure, but usually in an open way. Her motivation when killing trolls for justice was... justice. When she got revenge on Vriska, she did it by allowing Vriska's own deceptions to be the cause of her pain. And when she kills Vriska here, it is to prevent her own death. I don't see how this is even slightly comparable.
Which brings me to another thing that bothers me about the Homestuck fandom. People are not even bothering to address the fact that the trolls are not humans, they are not from human society, and they do not share human values. So often what is justifiable, understandable or appropriate for trolls isn't going to be so by human standards. Trolls wouldn't ordinarily be bothered by massive amounts of death, especially since its mostly highbloods killing lowbloods. In this context they might, since they are the last of their kind, but ordinarily? No big deal.
It just bugs me so much when people discuss 'Vriska's biggest crime' and list all this stuff that no one has a problem with in canon, or that other trolls have also done. I mean, Vriska killing Tavros isn't going to spur Terezi into action. Why act like it should? The story has been very clear that trolls wouldn't give a damn. John and Vriska even had a huge conversation about it.
I would love them to meet in the dream bubbles. I think it's really interesting how much they have in common considering how much they DON'T have in common.
I wish mspa had more discussion of 'oh, I wonder what this means' and less 'oh my god how could you do to me hussie you jerk' or 'i'm so glad she's dead i hate her so much' and crap.
Which, again, I think is a lot of immaturity. I don't know, maybe I'm full of shit. I just think people are morons a lot of the time.
Sometimes I just think fandom is stupid. And I think there was a lot of entitled ranting going on. You were right. It's not that people don't have a right to complain, it's that what they're complaining about is stupid.
'How dare the story not do what I want it to!! Hussie WASTED all my VALUABLE time!!'
Anyways, here's what I posted there:
I'm interested in the implications of Hussie's discussion of the 'Seer' role and how that applies to not just the Seer of Mind but the Seer of Light.
First Doc Scratch spent time drawing parallels between Rose and Vriska (Light) and now we get a discussion on Seers (Rose and Terezi). So I want to know what's up with Rose.
I also hope that Vriska isn't really dead. Her wound seems to parallel John's, and they're both characters who have used the game in a similar manner to seek self improvement/godhood/greatness (even if John is only doing so at Vriska's instruction) rather than focusing on defeating Jack/the game. Anyways, she's definitely a character who moves things along, not only plotwise but also in creating an overall emotional arch to the story.
The only thing is that I'm having trouble believing that death has any meaning in Homestuck. So it's not effecting me emotionally in the same way. I suspect I'm not the only one, so it will be interesting to see what will come next.
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In my opinion, there is no way that Vriska is really dead. Her death is a perfect parallel of John's: both were unexpectedly outside of a proper battle, so that eliminates the possibility of a heroic death right there. As for Just, I think that probably the reasons for her killing and the intent of the person who pulled it off are probably a big factor. When Vriska killed Tavros, it was entirely justified by troll standards, so Terezi can't hold it against her (which is why she was so placid about Vriska admitting to having done it). There may be an argument for preemptive justice, but not even the most rabid hater could pretend that Vriska intended for Jack to follow her trail and kill her friends. Troll law probably doesn't care too much about motive, of course.
I think that Vriska will meet John in the dreambubbles, since both of them are dead and since time is all weird there. And hopefully Tavros as well, so that those two can resolve some of their issues. And then she will be back as healthy as ever.
Reply
I've never been super-involved in any fandoms, partially because of the crazy inherent in many of them, but I will say this about the Homestuck fandom: I think it is a) younger than most fandoms I've been involved in, b) more reactionary than most fandoms, c) has more fanon floating around than most places and d) feels that the have a right to contribute to the story. The last possibly comes from the early interactive nature of Homestuck. But people get way, way, too worked up about plot twists. We only get a few panels a day - it's way too early to tell where the story is going, or the overall implications of one action to the story as a whole. (Besides, in this case it is Doc Scratch telling the story - you think he's a totally serious person? Or do you think he loves a joke?) People seem to have this sense of ownership over the story (often coming out the worst in fanon bullshit) that is expressed in a really negative way.
I think all these things contribute to make the Homestuck fandom a stupider place than many fandoms are. I mean, these people don't seem to know the difference between a) criticism of a plot turn and b) bitching about how dare Hussie waste our time with this!!
There are other ways this is expressed, particularly the younger nature of the fandom. I'm not used to that - I'm used to the fandoms I'm in being upon average older than me or at least having a good variety of ages. If you try to find fanfic in Homestuck, it really shows. It's really hard to find stuff that's long, plotty, introspective, non-cliche-riddled. It just shows immaturity and inexperience. And so I think youth also explains people's bad behaviour.
Why would anyone think that about Terezi? I mean, I'm a huge Vriska fan, but I like her for her ridiculous decisions, constant mistakes, and overall huge bitchiness. Terezi is not like that at all. Vriska's motivation is overwhelmingly self-interest. That's what makes her bluh bluh huge bitch. It's also what makes her an interesting character. Terezi is manipulative, sure, but usually in an open way. Her motivation when killing trolls for justice was... justice. When she got revenge on Vriska, she did it by allowing Vriska's own deceptions to be the cause of her pain. And when she kills Vriska here, it is to prevent her own death. I don't see how this is even slightly comparable.
Which brings me to another thing that bothers me about the Homestuck fandom. People are not even bothering to address the fact that the trolls are not humans, they are not from human society, and they do not share human values. So often what is justifiable, understandable or appropriate for trolls isn't going to be so by human standards. Trolls wouldn't ordinarily be bothered by massive amounts of death, especially since its mostly highbloods killing lowbloods. In this context they might, since they are the last of their kind, but ordinarily? No big deal.
It just bugs me so much when people discuss 'Vriska's biggest crime' and list all this stuff that no one has a problem with in canon, or that other trolls have also done. I mean, Vriska killing Tavros isn't going to spur Terezi into action. Why act like it should? The story has been very clear that trolls wouldn't give a damn. John and Vriska even had a huge conversation about it.
I would love them to meet in the dream bubbles. I think it's really interesting how much they have in common considering how much they DON'T have in common.
I wish mspa had more discussion of 'oh, I wonder what this means' and less 'oh my god how could you do to me hussie you jerk' or 'i'm so glad she's dead i hate her so much' and crap.
Which, again, I think is a lot of immaturity. I don't know, maybe I'm full of shit. I just think people are morons a lot of the time.
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