District of Columbia v. Heller; Or, Why Commas Matter

Jun 27, 2008 00:09

Historic moment, here, people!  I wonder what the rest of the world thinks of our individual right to bear arms. I got vertigo today, over the oddness/particularities of American culture. Usually I just take it for granted that our culture is pretty much "normal" (whatever that's supposed to mean). But my grandpa has a whole room in his basement ( Read more... )

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zaleti June 30 2008, 12:57:44 UTC
Wrote this at about 6am, with next to no sleep, doing bracing linguistic analysis instead of reading the glut of smut that's appeared on adama_roslin. So I hope it's coherent....

grammatically shaky... ambiguous...
Hmm... [ I'm deliberately clueless about the case so that my interpretations will be unaffected. ] By modern English standards, there is a superfluous comma in the first version. However, I keep getting stuck on the fact that the verb "infringed" in the 'matrix' clause can only go with "right". You can't infringe a militia, not in standard usage. But the "militia" noun phrase cannot be left floating. Linguistically, it seems there's basically nothing in it: the interpretation of v1 should be the same as v2.

You're right, it's not far-fetched to take the first half of the sentence as subordinate. I paraphrase thusly:
"Because a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
The interpretation here being obvious (we need a militia to protect the state = we need people to own guns), but it depends whether or not you want to take this at face value (sole reason) or play with it a bit (one of the reasons).

I think the biggest problem I have with this phrasing is the "well regulated" part. What does that really have to do with any of the rest of it? Letting people own guns doesn't entail a well-regulated militia. That is achieved by having trained soldiers use guns owned by the military. If you let ordinary, agenda-ridden people wander round with their own firearms, ostensibly defending the state, all hell could break loose (and frequently has, in the saloons of history...). Well-regulated, my foot.

Surely the writers of the amendment weren't naive enough to assume that people with guns would use them solely for the purpose of defending the freedom of the state? That's neither practical, nor human nature. But I can believe they thought that by allowing individuals to "keep arms", they would have a BYO 'army reserve' of sorts, should such defence be needed...

In the present day, it's less/not relevant. The military is well-funded enough to take care of itself, and does not require the citizrenry to be armed. In that case, taking the amendment at strict face value, you shouldn't have a gun unless you're a soldier. However, that's clearly not the way it works.

Ugh, my head hurts. Still know nothing about the case, but have just read chaila43's comment above, in re the justices' interpretation:
just because that's the stated purpose doesn't mean that's the only purpose, and that in fact the right to bear arms exists for all "traditional purposes". I too am inclined to wonder where they got that, because it's not from the text, but...
*gets out wooden spoon*
Dare I suggest that establishment of a 'reserve' was merely the most pressing or noblest-sounding issue at the time? I mean, the founding fathers were all about freedom from oppressive colonial overlords, right? Who's going to write, "We want to let everyone have guns just coz", when they've got a goldmine of patriotic sentiment to use instead? Looks and smells like a properly delimited, valid reason, but the reality of intent might have been different...
*holsters wooden spoon*
*crawls off to bed apologetically*

:D xxoo

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zaleti June 30 2008, 13:01:33 UTC
*winces*
Ooh, damn, that was long. Dissertation ahoy! Sorry... :O

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egeria61 July 2 2008, 14:07:58 UTC
LOL! Ooh, damn, that was long. *hugs you* Ok, first off, I'm really grateful that you DID take the time to write a dissertation on this, because I was wondering about that "version 1" of the amendment. When I looked at it after writing this entry, I was like: it's not just SHAKY, it doesn't even make SENSE. So, good to have confirmation on that, and good to know that there aren't two competing versions with different meanings floating around out there. I agree that our founding fathers could very likely have valued their guns first, and the reasons for having them second (thus making the reasons for owning them subordinate). As chaila put it, it's that libertarian streak in them, which we Americans have inherited (for better or worse). This ruling leaves me with conflicted feelings. Usually I'm all for civil rights: for instance, I hate the "Patriot Act" (just another instance of putting that "goldmine of patriotism" to use). And I'm an individualist (how can one NOT be, in this culture?). (Seriously, I don't like double dipping and have been known to yell at my own brother, "Get your own bowl!") :D But when it comes to guns, I think they need to be strictly regulated, even if it limits individual freedom to handle said guns. My final thought, however, doesn't reconcile me to my own opinion. Because this country is armed to the teeth, and the kind of regulations we'd need in order to actually control the use of guns would never happen. When you live in a gun-laden society, at what point does it become ill-advised to take away guns that really are a form of defense? But then, using guns to "defend" yourself can so often turn out badly, and I wonder if people are just safer not having them if they don't truly know how to use them, and if they don't get practice using them on a regular basis. In other words, it's a good thing I'm not making the laws. Individuals have the right to bear arms, if and only if . . . . [followed by an addendum the length of my arm] Yeah. That would go over SO well. *grins*

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egeria61 July 2 2008, 14:10:45 UTC
I am so never letting you live down the "my foot" comment. You will be reminded of it at random points in time, this being the first. Hehee! I occasionally say that, too, so don't worry, I'M LAUGHING WITH YOU. LOL. I AM EASILY AMUSED THIS MORNING. CAN YOU TELL? wEEEEEEEE! *back to dissertation planning* *rubs toe in the sand* *headdesk*

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