I think Dean is somewhat sexist, but I don't think he's a misogynist; I don't think he is consciously aware of the actual deep meaning of what he is saying.
My brother and Dean use the same language, but Dean uses it about people who are trying to kill him (because he understands that it's really, really BAD, even though I doubt he knows why) whereas my brother uses it about girls he picks up in bars.
I think Dean is somewhat sexist because it's clear he thinks there are some things young, pretty women shouldn't want to do (example: the way he treats Jo--that exposes a whole lot of things going on in his subconscious that I'd say he should maybe examine, IF I didn't think he was short on time and needed to use the time that he has to save his butt instead). But I don't think he is at all misogynist because I reserve that word for someone whose behaviour shows in word and deed that he really, truly distrusts and hates women. Like my brother, who really doesn't even like me, even though he loves me because I'm his sister and he has those kinds of duty-bound emotions.
I disagree with you that the use of misogynist language in these kinds of situations only makes a person a misogynist. I think that in situations where someone is trying to destroy you, or when you are dealing with the OMG really truly supernatural evil, you are going to spit up stuff that does not represent your beliefs.
What frustrates me about the whole "X is unacceptable regardless of context" crap is that a lot of it is coming from people who've never, ever been shot at. In most contexts I agree that the use of this language is pretty darn wrong, and a sign of what the person really thinks about women on some level. But when I only hear it when someone's being shot at or in reference to someone who shot them, I think differently.
You hear a lot of things when people think they might die that you wouldn't ordinarily hear. Some people believe this represents the truest self, but I think that's a really negative view of humanity. I've never been shot at, but I have had my brother shot. I have been in a couple of situations when I thought I might not get out alive. I did discover true things about myself that I did not know. I also discovered that you will fucking say anything when you are desperate and that a lot of it doesn't actually mean much.
Please believe me when I say that it makes a really big difference to me, and I don't understand why it doesn't to others, that these are the situations we hear this in. (I can only think it's lack of experience. I'm not saying that to belittle anyone and I am not suggesting that you should all go get yourself into life-or-death situations. I just don't get it.)
Sure, it's all TV. But Dean doesn't know it's TV and that he isn't really going to stay dead or stay in Hell. They're actually doing a very good job of depicting someone whose moral fibre is unravelling and who is totally fucking losing it in the face of an unavoidable doom so bad we can't even really imagine it.
I do think S3 was badly written. But Dean started it out by selling his soul to Lilith and ended up facing his own death by hellhounds and condemnation to eternal suffering in Hell. Of course he is going to use the worst words he can think of to describe demons and people who are doing their best to send him there prematurely. He's been slowly going insane and doubtlessly also becoming somewhat more morally and emotionally corrupt as the season progressed. It actually is saying something positive, maybe, that those ARE the worst words he can think of.
Just saying "it's never acceptable to use these words" is too bloody simplistic.
(And the one time I didn't bitch my brother out to hell and back for using the N word was when he was talking about the guy who shot him. I don't think we will hear that word on TV because it's not an acceptable word in our society on any level and believe you me I still cringed when he said it. But the reason I cringed is that my brother says it all the fucking time, and I know he really is a fucking racist. If he never said it at any other time, I probably would have laid it out to the morphine and stress of being shot.)
My brother and Dean use the same language, but Dean uses it about people who are trying to kill him (because he understands that it's really, really BAD, even though I doubt he knows why) whereas my brother uses it about girls he picks up in bars.
I think Dean is somewhat sexist because it's clear he thinks there are some things young, pretty women shouldn't want to do (example: the way he treats Jo--that exposes a whole lot of things going on in his subconscious that I'd say he should maybe examine, IF I didn't think he was short on time and needed to use the time that he has to save his butt instead). But I don't think he is at all misogynist because I reserve that word for someone whose behaviour shows in word and deed that he really, truly distrusts and hates women. Like my brother, who really doesn't even like me, even though he loves me because I'm his sister and he has those kinds of duty-bound emotions.
I disagree with you that the use of misogynist language in these kinds of situations only makes a person a misogynist. I think that in situations where someone is trying to destroy you, or when you are dealing with the OMG really truly supernatural evil, you are going to spit up stuff that does not represent your beliefs.
What frustrates me about the whole "X is unacceptable regardless of context" crap is that a lot of it is coming from people who've never, ever been shot at. In most contexts I agree that the use of this language is pretty darn wrong, and a sign of what the person really thinks about women on some level. But when I only hear it when someone's being shot at or in reference to someone who shot them, I think differently.
You hear a lot of things when people think they might die that you wouldn't ordinarily hear. Some people believe this represents the truest self, but I think that's a really negative view of humanity. I've never been shot at, but I have had my brother shot. I have been in a couple of situations when I thought I might not get out alive. I did discover true things about myself that I did not know. I also discovered that you will fucking say anything when you are desperate and that a lot of it doesn't actually mean much.
Please believe me when I say that it makes a really big difference to me, and I don't understand why it doesn't to others, that these are the situations we hear this in. (I can only think it's lack of experience. I'm not saying that to belittle anyone and I am not suggesting that you should all go get yourself into life-or-death situations. I just don't get it.)
Sure, it's all TV. But Dean doesn't know it's TV and that he isn't really going to stay dead or stay in Hell. They're actually doing a very good job of depicting someone whose moral fibre is unravelling and who is totally fucking losing it in the face of an unavoidable doom so bad we can't even really imagine it.
I do think S3 was badly written. But Dean started it out by selling his soul to Lilith and ended up facing his own death by hellhounds and condemnation to eternal suffering in Hell. Of course he is going to use the worst words he can think of to describe demons and people who are doing their best to send him there prematurely. He's been slowly going insane and doubtlessly also becoming somewhat more morally and emotionally corrupt as the season progressed. It actually is saying something positive, maybe, that those ARE the worst words he can think of.
Just saying "it's never acceptable to use these words" is too bloody simplistic.
(And the one time I didn't bitch my brother out to hell and back for using the N word was when he was talking about the guy who shot him. I don't think we will hear that word on TV because it's not an acceptable word in our society on any level and believe you me I still cringed when he said it. But the reason I cringed is that my brother says it all the fucking time, and I know he really is a fucking racist. If he never said it at any other time, I probably would have laid it out to the morphine and stress of being shot.)
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