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[editthetearsout]

Many of my friends, I presume, read Momus's Live Journal, and have already seen these photos, but for those of you who do not.....This really had an impact on me.  I try to remain unbiased, as I feel the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is so deeply rooted at this point, that it is hard to completely side with one group, or the other (the Israelis or

Comments

[editthetearsout]

As I mentioned in my entry...I try to remain unbiased....and I do understand that this issue, is huge, and deep, on both sides. I feel for those on both side of the conflict. I feel though, that in no way can I place 100% of the blame on one side or the other... Yes, it is terrible that Palestinian people democratically elected Hamas as their government, but this in no way should be a reason to not allow food into the occupied territories. We, as a country have made mistakes in who we choose to democratically elect, and the rest of the world hates us for it.....but we still all eat, and go to school and work safely. (and our horrible presidential elections, and scandals have also led to bombs being dropped on innocent people). The thing I struggle to understand, is that I honestly feel like some of the daily bombings would cease if maybe Israelis would at least leave the West Bank and Gaza strip for the Palestinians. I do not understand how they can travel, live and work back and forth freely between the Palestinian territory, and not expect animosity from the Palestinians who A-are trapped within an ever growing wall. B- cannot sustain a regular, peaceful life with even two meals a day. and C-because of the wall cannot even get to places such as school and work that have been blocked from them. Now, I do understand those who believe the wall is necessary, and yes, I think at this point, maybe it is. The violence from Palestinian territories via suicide bombings to Israel are horrendous, as are the bombings from Israelis to Palestinian territories. It is heartbreaking that any children of the world have to live in such a fear. ANY CHILDREN.
I have found some very enlightening videos that show a little of both sides. Maybe if you have time, you also would find them interesting (as you seem very passionate and educated in the regional affairs). There is one by the New York Times columnist Thomas Freedman called "Thomas Freedman Reporting:Straddling the Fence" He interviews many on both sides....and also visits a town where Israelis and Palestinians lived peacefully together until the wall divided them. (It is possible, I believe, for them to live side by side). Also, there is a wonderful story by a journalist who followed the lives of children in Gaza...he follows one in particular, Ahmed, who has an incredible story. The journalist planned to do a documentary following children in Israel as well, to present a unbiased picture of the lives the children, who hold the future of the region in their hands. He was killed, however, before he could complete his mission. (His death is shown in the video) You can find this one on Google Videos, and it is called "Death in Gaza" There are two parts to it, and it really changed my life to watch.
I understand those who feel so deeply with one side or the other, as the three main religions of the world all have their origins in the region (Christianity, Judaism, and Muslim). I also understand the quest the Jews had to establish a homeland after the destablizing and traumatic events of WWII. However, it is important to also understand that the Jews fled to present day Israel, where the Palestinians had lived already, for thousands of years. So, when looking at it like this, can either side truly claim the land as theirs? I think the only solution is to find a way to peacefully co-exist. Can this, or will this happen? I am optimisitc, but highly doubt it will come anytime soon. It is people our age, and younger, who need to drop the hatred and look at the bottom line of the conflict, as only we and those following us have the power to change it. This includes children being taught to hate in both Palestinian and Israeli schools. Hatred is NOT the bases of either Judaism or the Muslim religion.
I appreciate your comment, as I truly love discussing this issue, and all the many opinions people have. I myself, try to look at both sides, and I meant no harm to the Israeli viewpoint by my entry. (I only thought the photo was shocking because it is sad ANY child should sit next to such a memory). Please, let's keep the discussion going, if you would like. Check out those videos, and if you have any suggestions for me, please share them.

[editthetearsout]

Too all, if you and your children were forced to live in poverty for 50 years would you fight your oppressor? Never again should mean NEVER AGAIN not for some but all in the human family . The abused seem to have become the abuser in this case. How much land do you need? I have watched this for 40 years and the beat goes on. What a tragedy.

[editthetearsout]

I see where you are coming from. The Jews are doing to the Palestinians what was done to them during the Holocaust.

How on earth is this justified? Should we now call the West Bank and Gaza concentration camps?

[adreamoftheend]

both of you are cowards for posting anonymously. and i am deeply offended by what you just said. simply for the reason that it is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE.

[adreamoftheend]

by the way the above post was directed at anonymous posters no one else.

[adreamoftheend]

wow you obviously do not understand the history of Israel over the past 50 years. or you have only been listening to biast arab opinion.

[adreamoftheend]

1947 the united nations partition the land into 2 state. the majority of the " good"land is offered to the arabs, and downtroden desert is offered to the jews.
the jews accept, but the arabs(not "palestinians" as they have not discovered this identity yet) absolutely refuse.

1948 the british mandate for the land is terminated(meaning they are no longer the governors of the land) the pre-partitioned half of the land is given to the jews. (most people assume that the arabs will kill the jews). the british confiscate jewish weapons and pull out completely(they have been secretly supplying arms to the arabs with the knowledge that a massacre is about to take place)
in may 1948 Israel is declared a jewish state and on that same day 7 arab nations (Egypt, iraq, syria, jordan, lebanon, saudi arabia, yemen, +arab liberation army)declare war on the miniscule portion of MOSTLY DESERTED land(Much of which has already been legally purchased by the jews prior to the u.n. partition)
the invading arab countries tell all the arab/"palestinians" living in the land to leave while they invade and "drive the jews into the sea"
the jewish people tell the arabs living within israel that if they stay and do not help the arab invading armies then they will have full and equal citizenship within israel. those that stay are granted israeli citizenship, but unfortunately most leave the land
the new refugee state of Israel wins the war.
the arabs that left the land are not allowed to return because they are seen as collaborators with the arab nations that attacked israel.

the aggressing arab countries, instead of helping the new refugees in their lands, rounds them up into horrible internment camps. and for the past 50 years have forced them to live in these camps feeding them lies about israel. the league of arab nations has laws concering "palestinians" which do not allow palestinians to have any form of citizenship in their countries, so if a palestinian marries a jordinian, or an iraqi or a lebanese they can not get citizenship in those countries simply for the fact that they are "palestinian."

the work of terrorists within the country has led to israel taking drastic security measures over the past 50 years against the arabs within their country who recently found their identity as "palestinians." before 1948 they were simply arabs living in the transjordan british mandate-meaing they are jordinians not "palestinians."

so you can see that in this 1948 war of indipendence they where not the aggressors but where attacked, and as winners of the war had the right to extend their borders for their own security(much of the land israel extende to has been given back to various arab nations as a sign of good faith-the arab nations have by the way done nothing with this land to help the palestinian refugees)

on to modern times...israel has been attacked multiple times by arab countries-1956,1967,1968-1970, 1973. with a general cycle of
1. they are attacked
2. they win the war
3. they conquer more land from the aggressors with the need for security
4. they occupy the land for some years-security in mind
5. they return the land to the aggressors later on as a sign of good faith

1982 they invade lebanon(look this up and see why)
in 2006 israel invaded lebanon (for security reasons like 1982) because of the infiltration of hezbollah into that country, and the attacks on northern towns/kidnappings of israeli's by hezbollah in lebanon. also hezbollah was begining to attack israels big cities(like telaviv)with long range missles, and israel could not allow them to keep illegally smuggling these missles into lebanon

and now in 2008 they attacked gaza because it had become a staging point for hammas to attack southern israeli towns.

in most of these wars israel has allowed aid to enter the regions under attack most of the aid however hasn't reached civilians.(i wonder why?)

[editthetearsout]

Well, thank you for speaking non-condescendingly this time. I appreciate your views, and the history lesson you gave me. My only concern is your lack of learning equal viewpoints of both sides. I understand your frustration, however this conflict will never get resolved when there are so many people who take an extremist side, this is what has been happening for 50 years now, and obviously, it has not worked. Unfortunately, in my eyes, for every Israeli that is extremist, there is a Palestinian/Arab who is as well...and it is these people who refuse to allow peace.
Yes, as I have said before....both sides have committed atrocities, and both sides want nothing other than to live a normal, peaceful life. Peace cannot be attained with Israeli tanks lobbing bombs into Palestinian territories, OR with Palestinians teaching their children that they will instantly be martyred if they become suicide bombers. The thing is though, you have to understand, that just like in our very own country, many of these people, on either side, are not educated enough to look at the way they are escalating the conflict by their extremist stances. I think education is the key. And being open-minded. I think the people of our country also have to learn to look at all sides fairly, as we have so much influence in the outcome of the situation.
I have enjoyed this conversation, as frusterating as it has been at times. I think I will probably stop here though, as I am sure you can understand. I do not think Live Journal is the place for Round Table discussions, and I do not think either you, or I can influence the opinions of each other in this form of communication. We just have different views of the world, and different, yet both pretty accurate teachings (I say this, because I have been aware of the history lesson you gave me, but I do not believe you will try to look at the history of the region through the eyes of anyone else), and I think that there are many different eyes viewing the history there, in Israel, itself.
Thanks for the stimulating conversation, and I do not hold any hard feelings against you, just as, I am sure your moral standards should not allow for you to have hard feelings against me.
I think President Obama said it best when he said, that out of all the world's major religions, not one of them has its basis on hate.

[adreamoftheend]

just so you know i'm far from an extremist on the jewish israeli side, and i have had multiple palestinian friends who have some very horrible experiences which they have shared with me...and they have educated me quite well as to their side of the problem. on the humanitarian front i agree with them, no one deserves what has been done to them, but what needs to be understood is that the arab countries in the region have done far worse to the palestinian people as a whole. that does not mean i do not feel for the innocents. i never meant to sound condesending however what the anonymous posters above said about israel being like the nazi's deeply offends me, and is a much worse thing to say than any condescending tone i may have projected. but you're right face to face debate is much better than this since things can be missunderstood online.