this isn't just about TV personalities

[editrx]

I know this is a hot topic. I'm sure there are people I know, unawares, who disagree with the scientific concept of using embryonic stem cells for medical research. Heck, I know some members of my own family disagree strongly enough that I wouldn't even dream of bringing up the topic in their company

Comments

I understand

[valeriapalmer]

what you're saying - and I have fibro and undifferentiated connective tissue disorder to deal with and some time ago I would have been completely against any curbs on stem cell research. I would never have believed that someone might conceive in order to harvest stem cells .... but then there were the cases where people had sterilizations reversed and major fertility treatments to conceive children with the stated purpose of becoming cell donors for a sibling - even to the point of testing embryos to get the most likely possibilities (what happened to the ones that didn't make the cut?) so yeah, I have qualms and worries. I don't approve wholly of the current situation in the US, but I'd like to see it made impossible for someone to conceive just to harvest desired cells.

Re: I understand

[editrx]

Like you, I don't see the point of conceiving just to harvest embryonic stem cells. There are plenty that exist without the insanity of that.

But the scare tactics of the far religious right have the majority of the country thinking that "stem cell research" equals "women having babies that are then killed for research." That's just plain nonsense. The existence of Bigfoot is more real than that. Besides, embryonic stem cells are from the very first division of cells at the earliest "embryonic" stage.

I know you know that and that I'm preaching to the choir. :-) But some people don't know that -- and they react in a kneejerk fashion to the term, not realizing they're reacting to a wholly created scare tactic instead of to scientific reality.

But for some, reality is ... not our reality. I find that even scarier, but you can never, ever reason with them. I have family in this camp

Re: I understand

[editrx]

Oh, and, er, I do know that there have been a few (well-publicized) incidents of some mothers having conceived in order to harvest pieces for a sibling that has some sort of need ... which I find ... beyond icky. I mean, children aren't like handbags, and yet some people treat them as such. I find that repulsive as well as incredibly unethical. If there's a child existing who has matching tissue and is old enough and mature enough to make a decision to donate a kidney or a piece of a liver or a bone marrow donation, more power to 'em. But a baby? Or having a child grow up under the pressure that they exist simply to aid their sibling? The ethical and psychological effects of that are devastating, in my opinion. (And, yeah, I'm opinionated. :D )

Re: I understand

[valeriapalmer]

Not only that, but in one case I read about, they had the doctors sorting through the available embryos to select 2 or 3 with the best potential match - so what happened to the "rejects"? That sort of mentality and the willingness of physicians to do it does bother me greatly. I'm also bothered by the embryos created for in vitro that are frozen and never used, eventually discarded.
I'd probably be happier is I didn't think about this stuff - the far right is clearly nuts, but on the other hand there clearly are also people that would do exactly what the far right claims - conceive so they could harvest "the right cells". And that's not a comfortable thing - even though I'm a Republican, I don't like the lunatic fringe to get correct.

Re: I understand

[editrx]

You need to remember, also, that when scientists say "embryos," they don't mean fetuses. They mean only a few cells. That's what's frozen for later. If I felt I needed to save eggs, I wouldn't hesitate (though why at age 46 I would, I have no idea!); those "embryos" aren't much more than a just-fertilized egg, which is only a few cells.

Because of the high rate of rejection or failure in in vitro cases, they save the extra embryonic cells all the time, which is why throwing them out and not using them for something that could save lives drives me nuts. Some of the people so violently (and some are violent!) against stem cell research using embryonic stem cells (from those tiny few cells) are the same ones who can and have used in vitro fertilization and are so upset that the "babies" are being "killed" by the extras being thrown out. Why is it sacred to save a few cells but kill a fully realized human? The difference is in inaction versus action. That's what burns me up

Re: I understand

[valeriapalmer]

I know, but the notion of someone's physician sifting through a batch of embryos to find the ones to get the designer cells the "mother" wants ... that creeps me out; as does tossing the unwanted frozen embryos .... either let someone else hatch them or let them go to research - but the notion of deliberately creating embryos to harvest stem cells still creeps me out ... and I'm fairly certain it would happen - there has got to be some sensible middle ground ...

Re: I understand

[editrx]

I completely understand being creeped out by someone sifting through to find, oh, the right DNA configuration the parents want. Reeks of Brave New World to me. Now, sifting out, say, a set of embryonic cells that show a chromosomal variation that flags for, say, juvenile onset diabetes (a real killer) or early-onset Alzheimer's? ... then I'd be in a real quandary.

Re: I understand

[valeriapalmer]

Agreed re weeding out "black flag" genes being ethical - but selecting to get designer cells? Or a blue-eyed blonde or a male over a female? I think we agree that there's a line there that should not be crossed ... heck, I wouldn't even want to get within spitting distance of it ....

Re: I understand

[kayshapero]

There are genetic diseases that are sex linked - the female offspring don't get 'em, the male ones do (or have a 50/50 chance). There are reasons having nothing to do with personal vanity for selecting for sex. Fortunately, this can be done simply by sorting sperm, before you've even GOT an embryo to look at.

Re: I understand

[valeriapalmer]

Yep, but you know and I know (if we're both honest) that there's a largish segment of the population that would sort for gender for personal reasons, not health reasons. Look at China and India.