New conversation. Reproduced from another public forum, FBook.

[eatheiun]

To Recap:

I posted: Think the bible doesn't contradict itself? http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Rollinjh: These attempts at finding contradictions do not present a strong argument at all! The passages are taken out of context and the arguments are not attempts at finding truth

Comments

[rollinjh]

Hi again. I know i have been gone a while.

I don't understand how your previous response refutes the points i presented. Once again, the Elvis remark does not discredit my argument. His body is not missing. You have to look at all the facts.

I am sorry for putting words in your mouth with my assumption, but replace "faith in scientism to explain all of life's questions" with "faith in scientism to best discover what is true" and my argument still stands.

I watched the posted video and don't see how you have played by its rules. Especially on the topic of "positive evidence." I haven't really seen any positive evidence for what you believe..only an attempt to disprove what i believe.

I really enjoy talking to you, but do not want to argue just for the sake or arguing, and i am beginning to feel less and less like you are seeking answers with an open mind. I know that you have had a lot of time to think about this and i am sure that i am not presenting any new info that you haven't heard. We obviously look at the world through a different lens...I have no problem accepting scientific discovery, and do not see how it disproves the Bible or existence of God at all (same for archeological discovery and history). I also have no problem in accepting the supernatural and believe it holds the simplest answer to many more questions that cannot be answered any other way. (obviously the part where we differ)

God has provided more than enough evidence to believe in His existence and to believe in the Bible as the primary way to find truth and know Him, whether one chooses to accept it or not.

Please let me know what you think...i hope you don't see this as an attempt to conclude our discussion. That is not my goal at all.

[eatheiun]

Welcome back! 8^)

You've asserted that Jesus was buried in the, "tomb of Joseph of Arimathea." How do you know this? It is my understanding that Jesus' tomb is of disputed location.

The Elvis point is this, people generally knew that Elvis was dead. Yet for many years after, people claimed to see him alive and in the flesh. Had Elvis been resurrected? Or were these people hallucinating or privy to cases of wishful thinking and mistaken identity.

"I haven't really seen any positive evidence for what you believe..only an attempt to disprove what i believe."

I am playing by the rules here. I can't give you positive evidence for the nonexistence of something... no one can (though some say that the absence of evidence is evidence of absence). If this standard were upheld across the board I'd be in a position to require you to provide positive evidence for the nonexistence of Santa Clause or Thor or the golden tablets from which Joseph Smith allegedly gleaned divine truth.

Most people seem to miss the fact that rationality requires two simultaneous intellectual standpoints: Open Mindedness, and Skepticism. It won't count if you have just one.

The burden of proof lies upon the person making the claim. If I told you that there lived a little green man in my pinky finger who was really good at hiding, such that if you were to cut my pinky finger off and look, he'd move to my elbow. And upon cutting my arm at the elbow he'd move to my shoulder, and so on. You would be right in being skeptical of my claim. And until I provided evidence to the fact that this little green man existed, you'd be rational to withhold belief.

This is exactly the case with god. I withhold my belief until provided with convincing evidence to his existence.

I argue that the christian god does not exist based on logical inconsistency. Superman flies faster than the speed of light (Logically possible if not consistent with the natural laws that govern the universe). Duperman flies faster than the speed of light while not going anywhere (not even logically possible) [from Daniel Dennet "Darwin's Dangerous Idea, Evolution and the Meaning of Life"]. The christian idea of a god is one of an all-powerful, all-knowing and all-benevolent god (some even throw in all-just). I submit that this is nonsensical.

If god is to be "all-powerful" than there's no statement you can make that begins with, "God can't...". If god can't do any individual thing no matter how hard, it makes him, not all-powerful, just very powerful. Now ask the question, "Can god make a rock so heavy that he can't lift it?" We run into contradictions. If god is all-knowing, could he tell you where he came from? His mind would have to remember backward in time beyond infinite and since infinite is by definition impossible to go beyond, we run into another contradiction.

"God has provided more than enough evidence to believe in His existence and to believe in the Bible as the primary way to find truth and know Him, whether one chooses to accept it or not."

This is a bold-faced assertion, and without follow-up, appears to be only that. What makes you confident in saying this? I understand that this is what you believe, but you've yet to give me a rational reason why.