But it so is. College costs have increased at a far greater rate than just about every other cost in the country. As well, the degree does not even matter for many occupations. I have friends that have thus: History major, banking profession; Music major, programming profession; business major, pharmaceutical profession. The degree is just there for someone to go "Look, I did...whatever that was!" and to get a pat on the back. But these days it's essentially what a high school diploma was 40 years ago and "expected". Society has tacked on another 4 years to the maturation process to keep people from joining the workforce until their early to mid twenties...and then with enough debt they need to work their butts off for a long while to stay ahead.
Turns out my aunt is NOT paying for it though. I thought she was, but turns out it's my father that was going to pay for it. So I declined the offer and will pay for it myself. It's 11-14ish credit hours, I can afford it myself. I have a few years of doing nothing with my life to atone for. I may pick up some extra income tutoring some kids and/or a part-time substitute gig at the USPS. I wish I was like this a decade ago, I may have applied to more than just Winthrop, though I suppose with my thoughts on college I likely would not have chosen that any differently.
Hmmm... I have a hard time hearing complaints of the rising college costs from someone who had a FULL RIDE to college and did not take advantage of it...
Yes, college is a financial investment that will probably put you in debt for while, but having a college degree is so clearly linked to higher paying jobs, it more than pays itself off. Although the subject of the degree might be irrelevant, as you noted, the degree itself IS important. Making money so you can support yourself and your family... I don't see what is "selling out" about that.
It's also not just about a pat on the back - it provides evidence of skills/capability to a potential employer in lieu of work experience. An employer can be fairly sure when hiring a college graduate that he/she is proficient at writing, basic computer skills, and several other basic skills important in most office-type jobs, and the specific subject of the degree shows more than just a basic level of skills/understanding in that particular area. A HS diploma alone doesn't really show much of anything.
Anyway, all of that aside, good for you for getting motivated and getting work experience, and potentially a degree, under your belt.
Curious - why did you decline your father's offer to pay? Were there strings attached that you weren't interested in, or you just don't want to feel like you owe anything to him? Or something else?
Yes, yes, your first point is entirely valid and entirely my mistake. I don't think I make too many mistakes, but when I do, they're usually big enough to make up for not having a plethora of small ones.
But not all college graduates DO have those skills. It's sad the way people communicate, ones heading off to college and ones in it and graduated from it. Not exactly the level of sophistication people claim comes from college. I can show a basic level of all those things and could even before the HS diploma, the degree is a 4-year long paper of debt to "prove" it in lieu of a better test.
I declined my father's offer to pay because I don't think I owe him. I practically ignored that man since the divorce, he doesn't owe me a damn thing, I owe him a son. He deserves to be able to retire and relax, I'll worry about my life. That said, he's still supplying me with kitchen supplies, towels, sheets, etc. for the condo, and likely the king bed he has in his condo that he is not using.
I care more about family now, and I stuck with my mother for so long hoping I could get through to her and forge some sense of a "family" there. I started going over to my father's a lot more frequently about 3 years ago and want to restore some sense of relationship there. We have very, very different interests in life, but we are fairly similar otherwise. Which I think is a hard thing to overcome, but we both care.
Oh, I definitely agree with you that not all college graduates have those skills. But more college graduates than non-college graduates do, and it helps employers in the weeding out process. It's the potential employee that has to prove him or herself to the employer, so the easier it is to show evidence of skills/competency (i.e., experience, certification, degree), the better. The actual verification of those skills comes out in the interview usually, but that doesn't help you if you don't make it to that point. Bottom line, employers like degrees.
Interesting perspective about your dad. I am really glad you two seem to have gained a mutual respect for each other. My grandfather (dad's dad) passed away a couple weeks ago. I don't know if you remember much about my dad's childhood/relationship with his parents, but it was not great. His dad was an alcoholic and either left or was thrown out of the house when my dad was a teenager (probably about the same age as when yours got divorced). His dad made a lot of mistakes with his first family (later remarried and apparently did a better job with his second family). Anyway, my grandfather and dad never really reconciled, and I think it made the funeral that much harder for my dad, knowing that the chance is now gone. So with that said, I think it's great that you are trying to bridge that gap with your father and build on your relationship. Even if it's not perfect, it's probably better than not having one at all.
The thing is a more rigorous interview process and some on-the-spot testing could likely get the same result as having a 4-year degree without making so much of the population acquire 4 years of debt instead of 4 years of income. Chris personally has 27k in student loan debt, and his wife is over 80k in debt...that is more than 6-figures worth of debt and his job has nothing to do with his degree (and it took him a few years to even get a "good" job) and it'll be a lifetime before they pay off that debt.
Really anything poor I said about my father was my close-mindedness talking. We do not share many of the same interests, but we're rather alike. At that time in my life I was just trying really hard to ignore him and have nothing to do with him for no good reason, I was just upset about the divorce I guess. He has always been the better parent. But what happened with your father and grandfather is entirely possible with me and my mother, and I guess me and my grandma as well. As they both hate my guts now. My grandma has the stubbornness to hold onto her grudges (a good Christian woman, she is) and my mother is doing her best to duplicate her mother, afraid to be her own person.
Over 80k in debt with student loans? Okay, you don't HAVE to spend that much on higher education, especially if that's just for an undergraduate degree. It's fairly easy to get an affordable college education even with no scholarships by utilizing in-state, public universities or community colleges. I do agree with you that college costs in general are getting out of control, but making smart personal decisions and working hard, one can avoid having that much debt. I'm still paying off my student loans and will be for a few more years (at least) but there is absolutely no doubt that my education has helped me get a good job, and getting my masters degree helped increase my salary even more.
Boo. It really sucks what is going on with your mom. :-/ Sounds like even if you struggle for a while financially, it will be really good for you to be on your own.
She got a master's degree in Social work, so that's from 6-7 years of college. And up until they moved out of Chicago, they were spending nearly all their income just to not live in the ghetto and pay off immediate debt. You didn't go to an in-state university at all though, granted Winthrop was pretty damn cheap, even for those without a full-ish ride.
My mother has one chance to not be a terrible person as I need to get things out of the basement still for the move in. But most people believe she won't even let me into the house to get the rest of my stuff. And some think she has already thrown out Amber's belongings and such we had kept in there. She owns half my car so it's not quite worth raising a fuss, but I'm going to be extremely angry if she doesn't let me get in there and get my stuff, and I will likely do whatever I can to get what is mine.
Turns out my aunt is NOT paying for it though. I thought she was, but turns out it's my father that was going to pay for it. So I declined the offer and will pay for it myself. It's 11-14ish credit hours, I can afford it myself. I have a few years of doing nothing with my life to atone for. I may pick up some extra income tutoring some kids and/or a part-time substitute gig at the USPS. I wish I was like this a decade ago, I may have applied to more than just Winthrop, though I suppose with my thoughts on college I likely would not have chosen that any differently.
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Yes, college is a financial investment that will probably put you in debt for while, but having a college degree is so clearly linked to higher paying jobs, it more than pays itself off. Although the subject of the degree might be irrelevant, as you noted, the degree itself IS important. Making money so you can support yourself and your family... I don't see what is "selling out" about that.
It's also not just about a pat on the back - it provides evidence of skills/capability to a potential employer in lieu of work experience. An employer can be fairly sure when hiring a college graduate that he/she is proficient at writing, basic computer skills, and several other basic skills important in most office-type jobs, and the specific subject of the degree shows more than just a basic level of skills/understanding in that particular area. A HS diploma alone doesn't really show much of anything.
Anyway, all of that aside, good for you for getting motivated and getting work experience, and potentially a degree, under your belt.
Curious - why did you decline your father's offer to pay? Were there strings attached that you weren't interested in, or you just don't want to feel like you owe anything to him? Or something else?
Reply
But not all college graduates DO have those skills. It's sad the way people communicate, ones heading off to college and ones in it and graduated from it. Not exactly the level of sophistication people claim comes from college. I can show a basic level of all those things and could even before the HS diploma, the degree is a 4-year long paper of debt to "prove" it in lieu of a better test.
I declined my father's offer to pay because I don't think I owe him. I practically ignored that man since the divorce, he doesn't owe me a damn thing, I owe him a son. He deserves to be able to retire and relax, I'll worry about my life. That said, he's still supplying me with kitchen supplies, towels, sheets, etc. for the condo, and likely the king bed he has in his condo that he is not using.
I care more about family now, and I stuck with my mother for so long hoping I could get through to her and forge some sense of a "family" there. I started going over to my father's a lot more frequently about 3 years ago and want to restore some sense of relationship there. We have very, very different interests in life, but we are fairly similar otherwise. Which I think is a hard thing to overcome, but we both care.
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Interesting perspective about your dad. I am really glad you two seem to have gained a mutual respect for each other. My grandfather (dad's dad) passed away a couple weeks ago. I don't know if you remember much about my dad's childhood/relationship with his parents, but it was not great. His dad was an alcoholic and either left or was thrown out of the house when my dad was a teenager (probably about the same age as when yours got divorced). His dad made a lot of mistakes with his first family (later remarried and apparently did a better job with his second family). Anyway, my grandfather and dad never really reconciled, and I think it made the funeral that much harder for my dad, knowing that the chance is now gone. So with that said, I think it's great that you are trying to bridge that gap with your father and build on your relationship. Even if it's not perfect, it's probably better than not having one at all.
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Really anything poor I said about my father was my close-mindedness talking. We do not share many of the same interests, but we're rather alike. At that time in my life I was just trying really hard to ignore him and have nothing to do with him for no good reason, I was just upset about the divorce I guess. He has always been the better parent. But what happened with your father and grandfather is entirely possible with me and my mother, and I guess me and my grandma as well. As they both hate my guts now. My grandma has the stubbornness to hold onto her grudges (a good Christian woman, she is) and my mother is doing her best to duplicate her mother, afraid to be her own person.
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Boo. It really sucks what is going on with your mom. :-/ Sounds like even if you struggle for a while financially, it will be really good for you to be on your own.
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My mother has one chance to not be a terrible person as I need to get things out of the basement still for the move in. But most people believe she won't even let me into the house to get the rest of my stuff. And some think she has already thrown out Amber's belongings and such we had kept in there. She owns half my car so it's not quite worth raising a fuss, but I'm going to be extremely angry if she doesn't let me get in there and get my stuff, and I will likely do whatever I can to get what is mine.
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