Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways
So. We seem to have skipped actual BW/PotW discussion and gone straight to S1 overviews, but I don't like leaving them out, so I'm doing them anyway. XP
So here we go into Nine's goodbye... hold on tight, boys and girls, this one's gonna be a bumpy ride and not everyone's coming out alive...
Vague refs for Torchwood and Last of the Time Lords.
( 'BUT YOU HAVE NO WEA-PONS. NO DE-FEN-SES. NO PLAN.' 'Yeah. And doesn't that scare you to death.' )
So here we go into Nine's goodbye... hold on tight, boys and girls, this one's gonna be a bumpy ride and not everyone's coming out alive...
Vague refs for Torchwood and Last of the Time Lords.
( 'BUT YOU HAVE NO WEA-PONS. NO DE-FEN-SES. NO PLAN.' 'Yeah. And doesn't that scare you to death.' )
Er, fixed point + antimatter universe sounds catastrophic to me... And then variation in stuff like the strength of the basic forces very quickly makes humanlike life impossible, he'd have to be really lucky to find a universe where the laws differed enough to make him normal again while not differing so much that he couldn't exist, or find any kind of life he could communicate with.
Although, the TARDIS lost power when she crossed over to Pete's World and needed a bit of energy from our universe from the Doctor to get her charged back up again. Maybe there would be a similar effect on Jack since it was vortex/TARDIS energy that made him a fixed point?
That's possible - but I think of his transformation is an all-at-once sort of thing, rather than something than something continuously sustained by the vortex. He comes back to life because it's written into the universe that he has to, so it would depend on how far-reaching Bad Wolf's power was.
Then again, if it was that easy, the Doctor would probably have thought of it already.
That's the problem - anything we can think up, if we can then say, "Oh, in that case, the Doctor can fix it", then we have to assume it won't work. Because he's had plenty of time to come up with a way, and he certainly has motivation, and he's got nothing.
It's more that the TARDIS might be willing to take the good that an extended life for Jack would do for the universe into greater account than Rose. The TARDIS's sense of...balance I suppose would be different. Is that making sense?
Yes, yes it is. As I said, I wouldn't expect the TARDIS to think like a human, or even like a Time Lord, so yeah, her priorities would look a bit skewed. Oh - maybe that's what he meant by "She couldn't control it" - not that Bad Wolf couldn't control her power, but that Rose couldn't control her actions when her motives didn't quite line up with those of the TARDIS?
I'm sure, too, that her decisions on how and when to misdirect her landings probably takes into account what sort of challenge (or lack of, since there must be some 'quiet' trips as well) the Doctor is up for or needs.
Not just challenges, but distractions too. Notice how when he's most emo, she sends him to people who confuse the hell out of him? (Donna, when he's grieving for Rose; and Jackson, when he's grieving for Donna. And the day he gets dumped three times, she contrives to collide with herself - hmm...)
I suspect that it may be a secondary consideration sometimes, or maybe she doesn't always understand her passengers as well as she might.
Oh, she does screw up sometimes... she takes him to Mars on that day? Yeah...
And then the Doctor could get all grouchy because it was centuries ago and he thought they were good. He might end up offending her again if he's not careful.
Oh, inevitably. And then that leads to more trouble, and... vicious cycle, really.
Reply
Er, fixed point + antimatter universe sounds catastrophic to me... And then variation in stuff like the strength of the basic forces very quickly makes humanlike life impossible, he'd have to be really lucky to find a universe where the laws differed enough to make him normal again while not differing so much that he couldn't exist, or find any kind of life he could communicate with.
Well, maybe the antimatter universe wasn't the best example, though, I'm sure it would be a relief to know that there was someplace he could go that could kill him. We do know there are other universes out there that aren't parallels (or they are, but with such extreme and fundamental differences that we don't recognize them as such) and there may be possibilities in that, though it is undeniably a very long shot that living in or visiting one would be helpful to him.
That's possible - but I think of his transformation is an all-at-once sort of thing, rather than something than something continuously sustained by the vortex.
I'd been thinking of it that way, too, until the Abaddon thing made me consider it in terms of energy as opposed to something he just *is* now. It's equally possible that he's not drawing on anything, it's more that he just exists outside of time in some fundamental way, moving through it but not really touching it or being influenced. Like the Doctor, in a way, only he doesn't sense or manipulate time because he's...divorced from it in some way while the Doctor is not.
That's the problem - anything we can think up, if we can then say, "Oh, in that case, the Doctor can fix it", then we have to assume it won't work. Because he's had plenty of time to come up with a way, and he certainly has motivation, and he's got nothing.
Although, it's probably not something he spends lots of time actively working on. He knows Jack will need a solution someday, but he wasn't ready to die yet in SOD/LOTTL. It may be the sort of thing that's more simmering in the back of his mind, not forgotten by any means, but not on the front burner, either. If Jack came to him today for an answer, more focused attention to the problem might get that result. Or, too, he could be missing a piece of the puzzle, some aspect of Jack's condition he wasn't aware of that would show up with study. He could even be missing something obvious, as geniuses caught up in the minutia can be prone to doing (like Rose having to point out the London Eye to him three times before it clicked). I could see the Doctor dismissing something simple because it was simple it never occurred to him that it would work.
Yes, yes it is. As I said, I wouldn't expect the TARDIS to think like a human, or even like a Time Lord, so yeah, her priorities would look a bit skewed.
That's what I was getting at.
Oh - maybe that's what he meant by "She couldn't control it" - not that Bad Wolf couldn't control her power, but that Rose couldn't control her actions when her motives didn't quite line up with those of the TARDIS?
I hadn't thought of that as his meaning, but it's definitely possible. I wonder how much the TARDIS may have communicated to him about what happened and how much Rose may have remembered and shared with him about it?
Not just challenges, but distractions too. Notice how when he's most emo, she sends him to people who confuse the hell out of him? (Donna, when he's grieving for Rose; and Jackson, when he's grieving for Donna. And the day he gets dumped three times, she contrives to collide with herself - hmm...)
Yes, distraction definitely helps him. And really, a bored Time Lord, especially the Doctor, is a frightening prospect.
Oh, she does screw up sometimes... she takes him to Mars on that day? Yeah...
Yes. If she'd seen that one coming, she'd have refused to go anywhere near it.
Reply
Of course, he'd have to pick the right black hole... and risk getting ripped apart by the gravity differentials and still coming back to life if he got the wrong one.
We do know there are other universes out there that aren't parallels (or they are, but with such extreme and fundamental differences that we don't recognize them as such)
There are still only a relatively small crop of universes that would fit what he's looking for, though, so, as you say, it's a very long shot.
What the Abaddon thing makes me think is, Abaddon is drawing out people's life energy, and everyone has it, it's just that Jack's is eternally self-renewing.
It's equally possible that he's not drawing on anything, it's more that he just exists outside of time in some fundamental way, moving through it but not really touching it or being influenced.
Which is exactly what I think.
He knows Jack will need a solution someday,
Except that Jack told him he's the Face of Boe, so he already knows it's going to work out... oh, dammit. *fends off plotbunny about Ten going off to make the Face of Boe eventually mortal again while avoiding EoT*
but he wasn't ready to die yet in SOD/LOTTL.
Mm... and you're thinking of that school of thought that if Jack was unfixed, he'd immediately die, yeah? It's an interesting idea, but I don't really follow it.
He could even be missing something obvious, as geniuses caught up in the minutia can be prone to doing (like Rose having to point out the London Eye to him three times before it clicked). I could see the Doctor dismissing something simple because it was simple it never occurred to him that it would work.
That's a very good point.
That's what I was getting at.
Well, good then. I thought we were on the same page on that bit, just wasn't sure...
I wonder how much the TARDIS may have communicated to him about what happened and how much Rose may have remembered and shared with him about it?
Well, he also had the vortex in him, briefly. And I'm not sure if I've said, but I don't think he managed to get rid of it entirely, even while regenerating into Ten - I think he has a little bit of it influencing him right up to EoT, remember his "vengeful god" speech to Jack?
And Rose... we know she didn't remember any of it at first when she woke up, but bits of it could have crept back into her head.
And really, a bored Time Lord, especially the Doctor, is a frightening prospect.
Completely agreed.
Yes. If she'd seen that one coming, she'd have refused to go anywhere near it.
And at the end, she very obviously wishes she had.
Reply
Of course, he'd have to pick the right black hole... and risk getting ripped apart by the gravity differentials and still coming back to life if he got the wrong one.
The antimatter universe doesn't require a black hole. I forget the name of the serial, but it was during Four's time while he was traveling with Sarah Jane that they encountered it and there was just a deep hole in the ground in a mostly deserted planet.
Except that Jack told him he's the Face of Boe, so he already knows it's going to work out... oh, dammit. *fends off plotbunny about Ten going off to make the Face of Boe eventually mortal again while avoiding EoT*
If that's true, which I'm still not sure of.
Mm... and you're thinking of that school of thought that if Jack was unfixed, he'd immediately die, yeah? It's an interesting idea, but I don't really follow it.
It's most likely that he would just pick up where he left off on aging, but there's always a risk that he might not. So far as we know, he's the first and only being in the universe that this has ever happened to, so there's an inherent level of uncertainty.
Well, he also had the vortex in him, briefly. And I'm not sure if I've said, but I don't think he managed to get rid of it entirely, even while regenerating into Ten - I think he has a little bit of it influencing him right up to EoT, remember his "vengeful god" speech to Jack?
Interesting theory. I'd never considered that before.
And Rose... we know she didn't remember any of it at first when she woke up, but bits of it could have crept back into her head.
We know that she at least knows what happened (to the Daleks, at least) because she tells the Cult of Skaro about it in Doomsday.
Reply
Well, he could just jump into random holes in the ground, I suppose, but it's a bit desperate... cos the Doctor's not likely to tell him where it is!
If
that's true, which I'm still not sure of.
It's pretty much axiomatic for me, is the thing... we've just come full circle, haven't we?
It's most likely that he would just pick up where he left off on aging,
That would have been my assumption, yeah. Because he did come back undamaged to begin with, it's not as though he got shot in the gut and is walking around with a bloody great wound...
but there's always a risk that he might not. So far as we know, he's the first and only being in the universe that this has ever happened to, so there's an inherent level of uncertainty.
Yeah, but that's what makes it fun. XD
Interesting theory. I'd never considered that before.
I've seen it around fandom, and immediately pounced on it, cos the vortex did, after all, kill him, even though he said he got rid of it - and even though Rose survived its removal and woke up perfectly healthy.
Unless - oh, didn't think of this before - unless he healed her just before giving it back.
We know that she at least knows what happened (to the Daleks, at least) because she tells the Cult of Skaro about it in Doomsday.
Which means either they sat down and talked about it at some point, or she does remember at least some of it.
Reply
Well, he could just jump into random holes in the ground, I suppose, but it's a bit desperate... cos the Doctor's not likely to tell him where it is!
Well, the Doctor's not the only source of information in the universe.
Yeah, but that's what makes it fun. XD
Oh yes!
Unless - oh, didn't think of this before - unless he healed her just before giving it back.
That I have considered and it does make sense. I also kind of like the idea that there's still a tiny little bit of Bad Wolf left in Rose (though it works better for fanfic than cannon, overall), as long as it doesn't turn her into a comic book hero.
Which means either they sat down and talked about it at some point, or she does remember at least some of it.
Yeah, "I sang a song and the Daleks went away" doesn't really wash long term, so I suspect they talked about it.
Reply
Yeah, but with Gallifrey gone, isn't he gonna be fairly short of sources of info about the antimatter universe?
I also kind of like the idea that there's still a tiny little bit of Bad Wolf left in Rose (though it works better for fanfic than cannon, overall), as long as it doesn't turn her into a comic book hero.
Timeline Girl! Able to leap dimensional walls in a single bound! Faster than a speeding staser-blast! More powerful than a big yellow truck!
I think there is, though, cos the werewolf picked it up - and because of the nonlinearity of time, there now always has been, perhaps.
Yeah, "I sang a song and the Daleks went away" doesn't really wash long term, so I suspect they talked about it.
Yup. But she still never asked about Jack, did she? Cos if she'd known the Doctor abandoned him, she'd have made him go back for him. I've been assuming, actually, that she thinks he's dead, cos the Doctor's lie about him rebuilding the Earth would be so transparent to her. Some of the other companions might have believed it, cos they know the reasons people leave, but Rose would never believe Jack would leave them by choice.
So then she probably decided Jack was dead and the Doctor just didn't want to tell her.
Reply
Leave a comment