Reaction Post: "Bad Wolf" and "The Parting of the Ways."
Here be spoilers for "Doomsday," S3, and the S4 casting spoiler.
( Bad Wolf and the Parting of the Ways. *sniff* )
( Bad Wolf and the Parting of the Ways. *sniff* )
YES! And I really don't buy into it, either. I mean, he spent all of TW being emo about the Doctor, and then a few episodes later was all: "GOTTA GET BACK TO MY TEAM! YOU KNOW, THE ONE THAT SHOT ME. BYE, NOW."
Of course, he did spend a year chained up and getting slaughtered by the Master, so maybe that could be part of it. HMMM.
But on the other, it seems odd for this to be a part of Ten's personality. His regeneration was all about getting a second chance - a second chance NOT to press the button, NOT to drench his hands in blood; a second chance at building a life with Rose. Before, Nine said that he'd make a very bad god, and, while in awe of Bad Wolf!Rose, he seemed horrified that any one person should have that much power. So... I'm trying to figure out exactly why that changed, especially why it changed so soon after the events of Satellite Five. It just... doesn't quite connect for me. Any thoughts?
Oh, that's a good point. I don't think I've ever thought about how Satellite 5 could affect the Doctor's personality before.
One of the big differences between Nine and Ten seems to be that Nine's identity is very much tied to the Time War and his part in it. I mean, you can see it in the way he WALKS. You can tell his soul has been damaged. Ten still angsts about the Time War, certainly, but it seems to revolve more about how lonely he feels rather than an overwhelming guilt. Instead, he seems to have a grasp of just how much power he has as the last Time Lord (he's always throwing about the "last of the Time Lords" line, isn't he?) He's also got a certain amount of arrogance and hubris that Nine doesn't have, but I can put that down mostly as a personality quirk. So maybe the regeneration helped him separate out some of that immediate survivor's guilt that Nine had and led him onto the next level. Now that he's the lone survivor, what power and responsibilities does that give him?
I definitely think Ten attached a LOT of his identity to Rose, and a lot of his darker moments in S2 do seem to come when she's threatened. Harriet Jones and TCI was... I dunno, regeneration confusion? He really thought he was in the right? (And the Doctor *does* tend to be unforgiving when he thinks he's right - witness Nine's reaction to Cassandra and Adam. THAT part isn't terribly new.)
What strikes me about S3 is that revengeful side of his personality, the one we saw in TRB and in FoB. And that's a difference from S2. But I think a lot of that is coming from a place of deep pain more than any sadistic urge. He's not a happy person when he's punishing the Racnoss or the Family. There's some serious scary things going down in his mind - scary enough to convince him to go human in the first place in Human Nature.
But I think that Ten can also be quite compassionate, which I think we forget. He shows a lot of compassion to Cassandra in NE. Same with that Isolus in "Fear Her." Same with the last Dalek in existence and then to the Master. So clearly he's *capable* of compassion and showing forgiveness, but there's other stuff going on inside of him, too.
And Ten is, in general, more open and affectionate with people. His relationship with Jackie and Mickey certainly improves post-regeneration. He's very tender to young!Reinette in GitF. And contrary to what a lot of fandom might say, he was always very praising to Martha. He's a bit of a contradiction, in that sense, which is why I wonder if he is closer to real insanity than Nine was. Partially because he occasionally comes across as VERY bi-polar. Nine seemed to have a more even temperament.
Anyway, I'm not sure any of this actually addressed the issue at hand, but it's a bit of a composite of what I've been thinking about lately.
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But without her... he's lost. He's stuck and he's got to keep saving the world because that's what he does. But he doesn't have 'why' and that why has been what's keeping him in check post Time Wars.
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Right, which is why I try to link Ten's identity to the events of Satellite Five. For the most part, it tracks for me. He's more light-hearted and less guilt-ridden, and, like you said, he attaches a lot of his identity to Rose, which definitely makes sense. But...
Instead, he seems to have a grasp of just how much power he has as the last Time Lord (he's always throwing about the "last of the Time Lords" line, isn't he?) He's also got a certain amount of arrogance and hubris that Nine doesn't have, but I can put that down mostly as a personality quirk.
I agree with all this, except I don't understand why he's more arrogant. But again, I'm looking at this in the context of what happened on Satellite Five. You'd think that would've been a humbling experience for him. He learned that it was his fault that the Earth was in shambles. He was confronted with the knowledge that he doesn't always know best, that his actions have horrific consequences. And it's Rose who saves the day, not him. Also, his interaction with the Dalek Emperor showed him exactly how wrong it can go, being the last of your species, playing God.
And the Doctor *does* tend to be unforgiving when he thinks he's right - witness Nine's reaction to Cassandra and Adam. THAT part isn't terribly new.
No, definitely not. But those actions track better for me because they came before TPotW, before his epiphany that it was his actions that led to Earth's Hundred Years of Hell. That's where the real disconnect is for me. I feel like the Doctor should've learned from that experience, but I'm not so sure he has. For the most part, he still assumes he knows best, that he's in the right, and he often doesn't think about the consequences of his actions.
And Ten is, in general, more open and affectionate with people.
See, for me, this is kind of like the misconception that Nine was always dark and brooding. I know you're not saying that Nine was never affectionate, so this comment isn't directed at you. I just think people forget about how playful and affectionate Nine actually was (sort of like how people forget that Ten can be merciful). Rose, Jabe, Lynda, Suki, Jack, the kids in TEC/TDD, etc. - he's constantly forging connections with people.
His relationship with Jackie and Mickey certainly improves post-regeneration.
I think that starts before the regeneration, though it's much more noticeable in the case of Mickey. At the end of WW3, the Doctor and Mickey reach an understanding, and despite some light ribbing in "Boom Town", the Doctor's actually pretty friendly with Mickey. The improvement definitely continues post-regeneration, but the big TCI group hug wasn't completely out of the blue.
He's a bit of a contradiction, in that sense, which is why I wonder if he is closer to real insanity than Nine was.
Post-Doomsday, yes. Pre-Doomsday? If so, I'm not sure I like that. I don't like the thought that the regeneration merely made him less guilt-ridden. I'd like to believe that it was a healing experience, the catalyst for further learning and growth.
Please don't take this as me attacking Ten. I just can't quite connect his god-complex with the circumstances he was born out of, and I was hoping you'd be able to suss this out with me.
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I started sort of commenting about this in another post.
http://community.livejournal.com/dwrewatch/39308.html?thread=411532#t411532
I think that the Doctor is generally arrogant, no matter the incarnation. Nine, Ten, One, whatever. (God, Six.) He also is the last of his kind and often the only thing that stands in the way of injustice, and a sense of moral indignation he's got in spades.
He's also now VERY aware of his alone state. In a way, in S1 he's been walking around in a very numb state of grief. But at the very end of S1, Rose finally ends the Time War. NOW the Doctor has to move forward, and he really has to figure out what that means and who he is. He is an incredibly powerful being - the only one. Power enough to try and right wrongs.
That "higher authority" line in New Earth has always struck me in that way. Yeah, there was telling the kitty "you do not get to question me on this," but the "there isn't one" part of the line always hits me. The Doctor no longer has the Time Lords to look to for help (or to smack the crap out of him when he screws up), so he has become the end of the line in this way as well. S2 I think we really do start to see the Doctor working out his place and role in the universe post-Time War. Trying to figure out who he is and who he should be. I don't think he wants to be a god, or really do I see him with a god complex, but he is very aware of the kind of power he holds. And most the time that power isolates him.
Actually, the "playing God" thing I didn't really see until S3 in FoB, but I'm seeing now that I think I have a bit of a different definition of the phrase. By simply landing and interacting with people wherever, he's going to get involved and fight for what he believes is right. As a result, people's lives will change. So in that sense, he plays God whenever he steps out of the TARDIS - in any series and for any incarnation.
But where it started to get scary and you wanted him to just stay inside, for me it was S3. And really the only time I can think of off the top of my head that'd I'd really put into my "playing God" definition, would be the end of FoB.** Instead of letting the Family simply die, he threw them into perpetual torment. Basically hell. To me that's playing God. I never ever ever want to see him do that again, and would love to see in the future him ending that for them.
ETA: Okay, so the end of TLotTL gave us glowy-floaty Jesus!Doctor and that whole believing in him for salvation. How could I forget that? Possibly because I mentally lalalala through it all? :D
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Hee! I didn't mean I thought the Doctor shouldn't be arrogant (like THAT would ever happen!). It just seems odd to me that he has even more hubris, especially since his last experience as Nine was an incredibly humbling one. The Earth was in ruins because of him, even if his actions were fueled by good intentions. And he was powerless, the only option left to him murder on an epic scale. Then he's saved by Rose, by her unwavering love for him, and he's tiny compared to her.
In the comment you linked, you addressed the Harriet Jones issue. Regardless of who you agree with in this scenario, even if it's the Doctor, I don't think he handled the issue the way he should have. He acted in a way that he knew would change history, even though he was just confronted with the dangers of that, and, as you said, it came back to bite him in the ass. I think the problem for me is that he should have known better. He should've learned from his past experience.
In goldy_dollarI’ve always thought that Ten would have pushed that Delta wave button.
I agree with that, or I at least agree that Ten would've been more likely to do it, even in S2. Nine wasn't able to push the button, not again, and his inability to kill was his redemption. So why would his next incarnation be someone capable of pushing that button?
But where it started to get scary and you wanted him to just stay inside, for me it was S3.
His behavior in S3, horrific as it may be, makes sense to me. His identity and belief system was so tied up in Rose that it makes sense for him to go off the deep end without her. Except for...
Okay, so the end of TLotTL gave us glowy-floaty Jesus!Doctor and that whole believing in him for salvation. How could I forget that? Possibly because I mentally lalalala through it all? :D
If only I had forgotten that scene. Seriously. WHAT. THE. HELL. I honestly don't know what to take from that. I no longer have any idea what message the show is sending about God!Doctor. For the love, RTD, be consistent in your themes!
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He probably should have known better, shouldn't he? But even in the last experience of Nine, he still hadn't changed his ways, even before the regeneration.
From the experience of The Long Game to Bad Wolf, where he realized "I made this world," you'd think that would have been a learning experience for him. Even though what he did was right, he still cut and run without a thought to it again until confronted with it. We come to the end of TPotW, the Earth's been pounded at by Daleks, and the Doctor still cuts and runs. And not only from the Earth, but from Jack, who he knew was this fixed point thingie. Talk about something potentially coming back to bite him in the ass.
Now, I'm not saying I think he should have done this. Like, at all. But while I think the experience at the end helped him let go of much of the Time War, I'm not sure he'd changed that many spots, even before he regenerated into Ten. The last thing he does in that incarnation is to fly away from everything.
His behavior in S3, horrific as it may be, makes sense to me. His identity and belief system was so tied up in Rose that it makes sense for him to go off the deep end without her.
It really does for me too. I hate having to watch it and I never thought they'd take him that far, but it does all fit in the overall story.
If only I had forgotten that scene. Seriously. WHAT. THE. HELL. I honestly don't know what to take from that. I no longer have any idea what message the show is sending about God!Doctor. For the love, RTD, be consistent in your themes!
I really don't either. At all. And the worst part is that the more I try to break it down, the more clueless I become! :D
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Right. I think this is my biggest frustration with the Doctor at the moment. He now realizes how much power he has, but he hasn't learned his limits. And he doesn't seem to understand that this is a problem. He believes he's right; he's been confronted with his own infallibility countless times, but he hasn't learned from those experiences.
During S3, watching his downward spiral, I thought the finale would show the Doctor realizing how detrimental his behavior was, that he couldn't be judge, jury, and executioner. That's where I thought we were headed; that's the lesson I still think the Doctor needs to learn. But TLotTL threw me. Instead, he was elevated to godhood; his behavior was reinforced. So he still hasn't learned. And with RTD's penchant for religious imagery, I worry that he won't learn.
But while I think the experience at the end helped him let go of much of the Time War, I'm not sure he'd changed that many spots, even before he regenerated into Ten.
I'm not trying to turn this into a Nine vs. Ten thing. Instead of the actual regeneration, let's pinpoint his releasing of the Time Vortex instead. After he did that, after he made the conscious decision to sacrifice himself, after everything that happened on Satellite Five, why didn't he learn? Why aren't those events reflected in his behavior?
It feels... off. So much of S1 was about actions having consequences - Rose in "Father's Day", Jack in TEC/TDD, etc. - and facing those consequences. Learning from them.
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Yes! I really don't know how this concept persists. It astonished me early on in S2 when people kept saying that Nine ignored people, was always rude, brooding, etc., etc. No, he was continually reaching out. I think that what happened is that (1) people were only going on surface demeanour and/or (2) people are making binary distinctions between the two regenerations (if Ten is x, then Nine must be y) and pushing them apart. It's like the idea you discussed above that Ten had a better relationship with Jackie, Mickey - even Rose - than Nine, but if you look at it more closely, all of those relationships changed more in the last half of S1 than they did in S2.
I hadn't thought of this distinction before in quite this way, but I like it:
let's pinpoint his releasing of the Time Vortex instead.
The running out on Jack thing is obviously a kink in the plot, and it was up in the air for nearly two years - I still think it's a really wanky explanation and doesn't really make sense for any of the characters. The simpler, more elegant solution would have been the one flying around fandom that he was suffering regeneration sickness and genuinely though Jack was dead with everyone else/was trying to get Rose to safety before he "died"/could see everything and realized that Jack needed to stay here, now to survive in the long run/any combination of the foregoing.
After he did that, after he made the conscious decision to sacrifice himself, after everything that happened on Satellite Five, why didn't he learn? Why aren't those events reflected in his behavior?
This is the question that bothers me as well. And I don't feel that the "emotional" explanations are really sufficient.
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