This two-parter is actually one of my favorites of the entire RTD era. It's got great dialogue, Daleks vs. Cybermen for the longtime fans, Rose, Mickey, Jackie, Ten at his sassiest and cleverest, and then there's that wham! ending, after which Ten is never quite the same again.
There are those who criticize Ten for sending Rose to the alternate universe without giving her a say-so (and leaving her there again in Journey's End), but I can see where he's coming from. He knows what it means to lose one's family permanently, so he makes his sacrifice before she can make hers. One can argue that he's being arrogant in doing what he does, but I for one can't fault his reasons.
The fact that she comes back, only for the two of them to be separated anyway, is epic, pure and simple -- the definitive classic RTD "rip your heart out and show it to you before stomping on it" twist.
That said:
Loved the Dalek/Cybermen smacktalk, loved Mickey, loved the Pete/Jackie "reunion" (which was both sweet *and* weird -- and does anyone else snicker at the smirks on Ten's and Mickey's faces when Jackie says "there was never anyone else"?). Loved Ten smooching Mickey's forehead. Loved Ten's little Ghostbusters riff. Loved the 3D glasses. Loved Yvonne Hartman and the facedown between her and Ten, and the black tear (?) running down her cyber-face (that's Doctor Who for you). Loved "That's screwdrivah!" And loved the farewell on the beach.
(Even though "Darlig ulv Stranden" would actually be "Rubbish Wolf Beach" or "Sick Wolf Beach" in Norwegian. And I thought the TARDIS translated every language anyway, so what's with the Doctor mistaking "darlig" for "Dalek" and Rose having to correct him? And how exactly did the Doctor plan to work the two levers by himself? And bad, bad RTD for dropping that line in about a baby. Apart from that, great story.)
There are those who criticize Ten for sending Rose to the alternate universe without giving her a say-so (and leaving her there again in Journey's End), but I can see where he's coming from.
I mean, I certainly think he's been very high-handed and he is absolutely making decisions for Rose that aren't his decisions to make. But that's not at all unlike the Doctor, and perhaps more importantly the show doesn't allow that to stand. Rose makes her own choice even with the Doctor (and Pete) trying to make it for her, and it calls back to POTW. I like that.
Naturally it all goes to hell anyway, but I like that asserts her agency there.
And bad, bad RTD for dropping that line in about a baby.
lmao this damn line will haunt my fandom existence forever. It didn't bother me in the episode -- I didn't even really blink, I just assumed the Doctor assumed she'd gotten back together with Mickey, and then when she was like "no it's Mum's" I was like "okay fine" and moved on. But poking around on some old T&C posts revealed to me that most people apparently did not have this simple face-value interpretation of that scene, lol.
I mean, I certainly think he's been very high-handed and he is absolutely making decisions for Rose that aren't his decisions to make. But that's not at all unlike the Doctor, and perhaps more importantly the show doesn't allow that to stand. Rose makes her own choice even with the Doctor (and Pete) trying to make it for her, and it calls back to POTW. I like that.
Naturally it all goes to hell anyway, but I like that asserts her agency there.
Me too. I think what also helps (me, anyway) is the meta view that since Billie was leaving, RTD had to come up with a way for her to leave plausibly. Considering how Rose's relationship with Nine and Ten had developed, can you imagine the reaction if he had tried to do a typical old-Who style departure? ("I'm staying, Doctor" *sad look* "OK, bye") Or if he had killed her off?
That pretty much leaves tragic separation. (Same thing with Donna, later.)
And like you say, it was a very in-character thing for the Doctor to make the choice for her. There's his Time Lord arrogance, and he's also just used to steamrollering over people because it's often required in his line of "work" (for want of a better word), plus self-sacrifice is second nature to him. He may also have wished for Rose never to have to endure the loss of family that he has endured. So yeah, he called that shot, because he had to, in his view. (I'm not saying he's right.)
It didn't bother me in the episode -- I didn't even really blink, I just assumed the Doctor assumed she'd gotten back together with Mickey, and then when she was like "no it's Mum's" I was like "okay fine" and moved on. But poking around on some old T&C posts revealed to me that most people apparently did not have this simple face-value interpretation of that scene, lol.
I thought that exact same thing. I'm the type of viewer who doesn't assume the characters are having/have had sex until I actually see them waking up naked in bed together. Flirty dialogue and lingering looks don't cut it for me, I need it spelled out. :-)
Another thought: obviously the Doctor knows how important it's been to Rose to stay connected with her mother. He's been taking her home for visits; he's witnessed their relationship. So how can he not feel that severing that bond permanently is going to be harder for her than she thinks it will, and how can he not want to spare her that? (Again, not saying that gives him the right to override her choices; just trying to understand his POV.)
There are those who criticize Ten for sending Rose to the alternate universe without giving her a say-so (and leaving her there again in Journey's End), but I can see where he's coming from. He knows what it means to lose one's family permanently, so he makes his sacrifice before she can make hers. One can argue that he's being arrogant in doing what he does, but I for one can't fault his reasons.
The fact that she comes back, only for the two of them to be separated anyway, is epic, pure and simple -- the definitive classic RTD "rip your heart out and show it to you before stomping on it" twist.
That said:
Loved the Dalek/Cybermen smacktalk, loved Mickey, loved the Pete/Jackie "reunion" (which was both sweet *and* weird -- and does anyone else snicker at the smirks on Ten's and Mickey's faces when Jackie says "there was never anyone else"?). Loved Ten smooching Mickey's forehead. Loved Ten's little Ghostbusters riff. Loved the 3D glasses. Loved Yvonne Hartman and the facedown between her and Ten, and the black tear (?) running down her cyber-face (that's Doctor Who for you). Loved "That's screwdrivah!" And loved the farewell on the beach.
(Even though "Darlig ulv Stranden" would actually be "Rubbish Wolf Beach" or "Sick Wolf Beach" in Norwegian. And I thought the TARDIS translated every language anyway, so what's with the Doctor mistaking "darlig" for "Dalek" and Rose having to correct him? And how exactly did the Doctor plan to work the two levers by himself? And bad, bad RTD for dropping that line in about a baby. Apart from that, great story.)
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I mean, I certainly think he's been very high-handed and he is absolutely making decisions for Rose that aren't his decisions to make. But that's not at all unlike the Doctor, and perhaps more importantly the show doesn't allow that to stand. Rose makes her own choice even with the Doctor (and Pete) trying to make it for her, and it calls back to POTW. I like that.
Naturally it all goes to hell anyway, but I like that asserts her agency there.
And bad, bad RTD for dropping that line in about a baby.
lmao this damn line will haunt my fandom existence forever. It didn't bother me in the episode -- I didn't even really blink, I just assumed the Doctor assumed she'd gotten back together with Mickey, and then when she was like "no it's Mum's" I was like "okay fine" and moved on. But poking around on some old T&C posts revealed to me that most people apparently did not have this simple face-value interpretation of that scene, lol.
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Naturally it all goes to hell anyway, but I like that asserts her agency there.
Me too. I think what also helps (me, anyway) is the meta view that since Billie was leaving, RTD had to come up with a way for her to leave plausibly. Considering how Rose's relationship with Nine and Ten had developed, can you imagine the reaction if he had tried to do a typical old-Who style departure? ("I'm staying, Doctor" *sad look* "OK, bye") Or if he had killed her off?
That pretty much leaves tragic separation. (Same thing with Donna, later.)
And like you say, it was a very in-character thing for the Doctor to make the choice for her. There's his Time Lord arrogance, and he's also just used to steamrollering over people because it's often required in his line of "work" (for want of a better word), plus self-sacrifice is second nature to him. He may also have wished for Rose never to have to endure the loss of family that he has endured. So yeah, he called that shot, because he had to, in his view. (I'm not saying he's right.)
It didn't bother me in the episode -- I didn't even really blink, I just assumed the Doctor assumed she'd gotten back together with Mickey, and then when she was like "no it's Mum's" I was like "okay fine" and moved on. But poking around on some old T&C posts revealed to me that most people apparently did not have this simple face-value interpretation of that scene, lol.
I thought that exact same thing. I'm the type of viewer who doesn't assume the characters are having/have had sex until I actually see them waking up naked in bed together. Flirty dialogue and lingering looks don't cut it for me, I need it spelled out. :-)
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