SPIDER-MAN (ULTIMATEVERSE) AND YULETIDE: a timeline
YULETIDE 2010
-The fandom "Spider-Man (Ultimateverse)" is requested by four people and offered by three. One story is written.
YULETIDE 2011
-The fandom "Spider-Man (Ultimateverse)" is nominated, with the following characters: May Parker (Spider-Man (Ultimateverse)), Miles Morales, Gwen Stacy, J. Jonah Jameson, Jessica Drew, Johnny Storm, Kitty Pryde, Mary Jane Watson, Nick Fury, Peter Parker, Venom.
-Spider-Man (Ultimateverse) is requested by five participants and offered by six. One story is written.
YULETIDE 2012
-The fandom "Spider-Man (Ultimateverse)" is nominated, with the following characters: Aaron Davis, Bobby Drake (Ultimateverse), Detective Maria Hill, Ganke (Ultimate Spider-Man), Johnny Storm (Ultimateverse), Judge (Ultimate Spider-Man), Kitty Pryde (Ultimateverse), May Parker (Ultimate Spider-Man), Norman Osborn (Ultimateverse), Peter Parker (Spider-Man (Ultimateverse)), Rio Morales (Spider-Man (Ultimateverse)), Robert Baldwin (Ultimateverse), Susan Storm (Ultimateverse), Flash Thompson, Gwen Stacy, Jessica Drew, Mary Jane Watson, Miles Morales, Nick Fury.
-Spider-Man (Ultimateverse) is requested by nine participants and offered by eight. This puts it in roughly the top 10% of the 2500+ nominated fandoms in terms of number of offers, and in the top 5% for requests. Five stories are written.
YULETIDE 2013
September 23, 6PM EST: Nominations close, and the approval process begins.
September 26: My nomination of Spider-Man (Ultimateverse), with the characters Katie Bishop, Gwen Stacy, Miles Morales, and Mary Jane Watson (Ultimateverse) is processed. The fandom is approved as "Marvel Ultimates," Katie Bishop is approved as "Kate Bishop (Ultimates)," and the remaining three characters are rejected. (The character rejections are later revealed to be the result of multiple nominations - once a character is approved, any differently-typed duplicates are rejected.)
September 29, 6:27 PM EST: The tagset is opened for review.
September 29, 6:43 PM EST: I comment to ask why all Ultimateverse titles were merged under Marvel Ultimates. As far as I know, this was the first time the issue was raised in a yuletide_admin post. My comment never receives a response from a mod.
September 29, 8:49 PM EST: Due to an AO3 bug, the tagset is closed and public review is temporarily halted.
October 4, 1:40 PM EST: Tagset reopened for review.
October 4, 1:46 PM EST: A commenter asks whether unaddressed issues from previous posts should be brought up again. Mod hhertzof says yes.
October 4, 2:01 PM EST: The same commenter posts about the Ultimateverse merge. A handful of other fans chime in to agree that the merge isn't a good idea.
October 4, 5:12 PM EST: Five days in, the first mod comment on the matter is posted by jenn_calaelen. She says that "a lot of the characters nominated in Spiderman Ultimateverse did not appear in that series," and that out of consideration to the people who nominated wrong, they made the decision to merge the fandoms rather than reject a significant number of incorrect nominations. [At time of posting and to the best of my knowledge, this remains the only time mods have responded directly to a user comment on the issue. ETA: This was the only mod reply to a user comment until jenn_calaelen's response to dhampyresa on October 7.]
October 4, 5:49 PM EST - October 6, 4:12 PM EST: I point out that of the 22 characters currently under Marvel Ultimates, all but two would have been valid Spider-Man (Ultimateverse) nominations. Eighteen more fans comment to explain that a) the mod assumption that "Marvel Ultimates" is a suitable umbrella is incorrect, b) that the mods were most likely mistaken when they concluded that most of the nominations were incorrect, and c) it would be better for everyone planning to request and offer Ultimateverse fandoms if they were separated back out to the way they were originally nominated. There is no disagreement between fans as to how they would like this handled. (Unlike, say, the Moriarty/Irene issue in Elementary, in which one fan has requested that the tags be wrangled a certain way due to their headcanon, but other Elementary fans object.) A character breakdown is provided to assist the mods in splitting the fandoms back up.
All told, 21 different users comment in this thread to request that the mods undo their changes.
October 5, 5:12 PM EST: Mod jenn_calaelen posts to explain the mod ruling on the Ultimateverse fandoms. This is only the second time a mod has said anything about the issue, and it still manages to directly contradict previous mod statements.
Whereas the confusion and merge was previously blamed on Spider-Man (Ultimateverse) fans nominating characters who did not appear in their canon (a claim that was disproved), it is now blamed on "characters nominated under the fandom Marvel Ultimates...only appearing in one or more of the Spider-Man titles in the Ultimate verse."
The mod decision is to split the fandoms back into "Marvel Ultimates" (as it was originally nominated) and "Ultimate Comics Spider-Man," a deviation from a) Yuletide precedent, b) AO3 tagging, and c) nominator preference. The mod decision is also that "Ultimate Comics Spider-Man" is the only eligible Ultimate Spider-Man title, despite the fact that the name change from "Ultimate Spider-Man" to "Ultimate Comics Spider-Man" reflects a rebranding rather than a break in the continuous continuity of the series.
The mod decision is also that any characters not appearing in either fandom have been removed from the tagset; the implication being that incorrectly nominated characters saved by the merge have now been lost.
Gwen Stacy is the only character who has been removed.
October 5, 5:26 PM: User myxginxblossoms comments to ask how this problem will inform future nominations decisions, and clarifies that she's talking about the general practice of changing tags without consulting nominators.
October 5, 5:34 PM EST: I comment to point out that Gwen Stacy, the only missing character, is actually a regular player in Ultimate Comics Spider-Man. I also make the apparently colossal mistake of pointing out that marvel.wikia runs different pages for Gwen and for Clone Gwen, thinking that this might be why they concluded that Gwen does not appear in UCSM. However, I also mention that it is never stated in the current UCSM title that Gwen is a clone. (It was news to me, honestly.)
October 5, 5:50 PM - October 6, 3:47 PM EST: Several users comment with further evidence that Gwen Stacy does, in fact, appear in the title in question. Other users comment to point out that the mods are still incorrectly referring to the wider category as the "Ultimates Universe" and a tag wrangler comments to reassure them that it's taken care of. Still more users point out that there's no meaningful canon distinction between USM and UCSM. Many of these users also thank the mods for their cooperation and understanding thus far.
Beyond a clarification regarding Susan Storm, there is no mod response after 5:37 PM EST. [This is understandable; we all have to sleep.]
October 6, 2:16 PM EST: Mod jenn_calaelen responds to a commenter thanking the mods for their time and effort. At this time, all questions regarding Gwen Stacy and the USM/UCSM distinction have received no response.
October 5, 2:53 PM EST: User myxginxblossoms edits her comment to note that she is troubled that mods are responding to praise and ignoring criticism. jenn_calaelen apologizes, saying she didn't realize myxginxblossoms was expecting a reply, and that certain issues need more consideration and therefore do not get quick replies. As part of her response, myxginxblossoms talks about the general silence that Ultimateverse fans have met and why that is frustrating participants.
October 6, 4:50 PM EST: Jenn responds with "Noted," and edits the post [presumably at some point in the following ten minutes, though it could conceivably have happened before 4:50PM] to announce that because nobody nominated Gwen's clone specifically, her rejection stands.
Despite the fact that this is done as an ETA, rather than a comment or a new post, and nobody receives an email notification about this decision, commenters at yuletide_coal pick up on the change almost immediately.
October 6, 5:10 PM EST: The first objection to the Gwen decision is posted. Three more follow.
The objections boil down to the fact that there is no meaningful distinction between Gwen's original body and her clone body, that there is furthermore no meaningful distinction between the different titles that comprise Spider-Man (Ultimateverse), that Gwen is never identified as a clone in the current title, and that even if those distinctions were meaningful, the Gwen Stacy nominations were correct at the time they were nominated, and would still be correct if the mods had just left the nominations alone. It's also pointed out that one of the purposes of the tagset review period is to clarify which incarnation of a character is meant if there is confusion.
October 6, 5:25 PM EST: Comments on the post are closed.
October 6, 5:51 PM EST - October 7, 10:42 AM EST: Six threads on the matter are started on the main tagset review post:
http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/155884.html?thread=6796524#t6796524
http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/155884.html?thread=6796780#t6796780
http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/155884.html?thread=6797036#t6797036
http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/155884.html?thread=6797804#t6797804
http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/155884.html?thread=6800364#t6800364
http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/155884.html?thread=6818796#t6818796
And five on the "last call for corrections" post:
http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/156172.html?thread=6801164#t6801164
http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/156172.html?thread=6810892#t6810892
http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/156172.html?thread=6812172#t6812172
http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/156172.html?thread=6817036#t6817036
http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/156172.html?thread=6820108#t6820108
None of these comments receive a mod response.
October 7, 12:21 PM EST or somewhere around there: Vetting period ends. Comments on the tagset review post and the last call post are closed.
October 7, 12:28 PM EST: The first comment on the "vetting period ended" post objects to the other posts being closed to comments. A response is...unlikely.
October 7, 2013, 2:52 PM EST: Commenter dhampyresa states that as long as other user's issues are still being addressed, she would like Gwen Stacy added to the tagset.
October 7, 2013, 2:59 PM EST: jenn_calaelen responds. Gwen Stacy has been added to the tagset, as Clone Gwen Stacy (Ultimateverse). (If you're looking for her, she's currently in Unassociated Characters & Relationships.) "Clone Gwen Stacy (Ultimateverse)" now shows as a nominated character in Ultimate Comics Spider-Man.
-The fandom "Spider-Man (Ultimateverse)" is requested by four people and offered by three. One story is written.
YULETIDE 2011
-The fandom "Spider-Man (Ultimateverse)" is nominated, with the following characters: May Parker (Spider-Man (Ultimateverse)), Miles Morales, Gwen Stacy, J. Jonah Jameson, Jessica Drew, Johnny Storm, Kitty Pryde, Mary Jane Watson, Nick Fury, Peter Parker, Venom.
-Spider-Man (Ultimateverse) is requested by five participants and offered by six. One story is written.
YULETIDE 2012
-The fandom "Spider-Man (Ultimateverse)" is nominated, with the following characters: Aaron Davis, Bobby Drake (Ultimateverse), Detective Maria Hill, Ganke (Ultimate Spider-Man), Johnny Storm (Ultimateverse), Judge (Ultimate Spider-Man), Kitty Pryde (Ultimateverse), May Parker (Ultimate Spider-Man), Norman Osborn (Ultimateverse), Peter Parker (Spider-Man (Ultimateverse)), Rio Morales (Spider-Man (Ultimateverse)), Robert Baldwin (Ultimateverse), Susan Storm (Ultimateverse), Flash Thompson, Gwen Stacy, Jessica Drew, Mary Jane Watson, Miles Morales, Nick Fury.
-Spider-Man (Ultimateverse) is requested by nine participants and offered by eight. This puts it in roughly the top 10% of the 2500+ nominated fandoms in terms of number of offers, and in the top 5% for requests. Five stories are written.
YULETIDE 2013
September 23, 6PM EST: Nominations close, and the approval process begins.
September 26: My nomination of Spider-Man (Ultimateverse), with the characters Katie Bishop, Gwen Stacy, Miles Morales, and Mary Jane Watson (Ultimateverse) is processed. The fandom is approved as "Marvel Ultimates," Katie Bishop is approved as "Kate Bishop (Ultimates)," and the remaining three characters are rejected. (The character rejections are later revealed to be the result of multiple nominations - once a character is approved, any differently-typed duplicates are rejected.)
September 29, 6:27 PM EST: The tagset is opened for review.
September 29, 6:43 PM EST: I comment to ask why all Ultimateverse titles were merged under Marvel Ultimates. As far as I know, this was the first time the issue was raised in a yuletide_admin post. My comment never receives a response from a mod.
September 29, 8:49 PM EST: Due to an AO3 bug, the tagset is closed and public review is temporarily halted.
October 4, 1:40 PM EST: Tagset reopened for review.
October 4, 1:46 PM EST: A commenter asks whether unaddressed issues from previous posts should be brought up again. Mod hhertzof says yes.
October 4, 2:01 PM EST: The same commenter posts about the Ultimateverse merge. A handful of other fans chime in to agree that the merge isn't a good idea.
October 4, 5:12 PM EST: Five days in, the first mod comment on the matter is posted by jenn_calaelen. She says that "a lot of the characters nominated in Spiderman Ultimateverse did not appear in that series," and that out of consideration to the people who nominated wrong, they made the decision to merge the fandoms rather than reject a significant number of incorrect nominations. [At time of posting and to the best of my knowledge, this remains the only time mods have responded directly to a user comment on the issue. ETA: This was the only mod reply to a user comment until jenn_calaelen's response to dhampyresa on October 7.]
October 4, 5:49 PM EST - October 6, 4:12 PM EST: I point out that of the 22 characters currently under Marvel Ultimates, all but two would have been valid Spider-Man (Ultimateverse) nominations. Eighteen more fans comment to explain that a) the mod assumption that "Marvel Ultimates" is a suitable umbrella is incorrect, b) that the mods were most likely mistaken when they concluded that most of the nominations were incorrect, and c) it would be better for everyone planning to request and offer Ultimateverse fandoms if they were separated back out to the way they were originally nominated. There is no disagreement between fans as to how they would like this handled. (Unlike, say, the Moriarty/Irene issue in Elementary, in which one fan has requested that the tags be wrangled a certain way due to their headcanon, but other Elementary fans object.) A character breakdown is provided to assist the mods in splitting the fandoms back up.
All told, 21 different users comment in this thread to request that the mods undo their changes.
October 5, 5:12 PM EST: Mod jenn_calaelen posts to explain the mod ruling on the Ultimateverse fandoms. This is only the second time a mod has said anything about the issue, and it still manages to directly contradict previous mod statements.
Whereas the confusion and merge was previously blamed on Spider-Man (Ultimateverse) fans nominating characters who did not appear in their canon (a claim that was disproved), it is now blamed on "characters nominated under the fandom Marvel Ultimates...only appearing in one or more of the Spider-Man titles in the Ultimate verse."
The mod decision is to split the fandoms back into "Marvel Ultimates" (as it was originally nominated) and "Ultimate Comics Spider-Man," a deviation from a) Yuletide precedent, b) AO3 tagging, and c) nominator preference. The mod decision is also that "Ultimate Comics Spider-Man" is the only eligible Ultimate Spider-Man title, despite the fact that the name change from "Ultimate Spider-Man" to "Ultimate Comics Spider-Man" reflects a rebranding rather than a break in the continuous continuity of the series.
The mod decision is also that any characters not appearing in either fandom have been removed from the tagset; the implication being that incorrectly nominated characters saved by the merge have now been lost.
Gwen Stacy is the only character who has been removed.
October 5, 5:26 PM: User myxginxblossoms comments to ask how this problem will inform future nominations decisions, and clarifies that she's talking about the general practice of changing tags without consulting nominators.
October 5, 5:34 PM EST: I comment to point out that Gwen Stacy, the only missing character, is actually a regular player in Ultimate Comics Spider-Man. I also make the apparently colossal mistake of pointing out that marvel.wikia runs different pages for Gwen and for Clone Gwen, thinking that this might be why they concluded that Gwen does not appear in UCSM. However, I also mention that it is never stated in the current UCSM title that Gwen is a clone. (It was news to me, honestly.)
October 5, 5:50 PM - October 6, 3:47 PM EST: Several users comment with further evidence that Gwen Stacy does, in fact, appear in the title in question. Other users comment to point out that the mods are still incorrectly referring to the wider category as the "Ultimates Universe" and a tag wrangler comments to reassure them that it's taken care of. Still more users point out that there's no meaningful canon distinction between USM and UCSM. Many of these users also thank the mods for their cooperation and understanding thus far.
Beyond a clarification regarding Susan Storm, there is no mod response after 5:37 PM EST. [This is understandable; we all have to sleep.]
October 6, 2:16 PM EST: Mod jenn_calaelen responds to a commenter thanking the mods for their time and effort. At this time, all questions regarding Gwen Stacy and the USM/UCSM distinction have received no response.
October 5, 2:53 PM EST: User myxginxblossoms edits her comment to note that she is troubled that mods are responding to praise and ignoring criticism. jenn_calaelen apologizes, saying she didn't realize myxginxblossoms was expecting a reply, and that certain issues need more consideration and therefore do not get quick replies. As part of her response, myxginxblossoms talks about the general silence that Ultimateverse fans have met and why that is frustrating participants.
October 6, 4:50 PM EST: Jenn responds with "Noted," and edits the post [presumably at some point in the following ten minutes, though it could conceivably have happened before 4:50PM] to announce that because nobody nominated Gwen's clone specifically, her rejection stands.
Despite the fact that this is done as an ETA, rather than a comment or a new post, and nobody receives an email notification about this decision, commenters at yuletide_coal pick up on the change almost immediately.
October 6, 5:10 PM EST: The first objection to the Gwen decision is posted. Three more follow.
The objections boil down to the fact that there is no meaningful distinction between Gwen's original body and her clone body, that there is furthermore no meaningful distinction between the different titles that comprise Spider-Man (Ultimateverse), that Gwen is never identified as a clone in the current title, and that even if those distinctions were meaningful, the Gwen Stacy nominations were correct at the time they were nominated, and would still be correct if the mods had just left the nominations alone. It's also pointed out that one of the purposes of the tagset review period is to clarify which incarnation of a character is meant if there is confusion.
October 6, 5:25 PM EST: Comments on the post are closed.
October 6, 5:51 PM EST - October 7, 10:42 AM EST: Six threads on the matter are started on the main tagset review post:
http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/155884.html?thread=6796524#t6796524
http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/155884.html?thread=6796780#t6796780
http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/155884.html?thread=6797036#t6797036
http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/155884.html?thread=6797804#t6797804
http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/155884.html?thread=6800364#t6800364
http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/155884.html?thread=6818796#t6818796
And five on the "last call for corrections" post:
http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/156172.html?thread=6801164#t6801164
http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/156172.html?thread=6810892#t6810892
http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/156172.html?thread=6812172#t6812172
http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/156172.html?thread=6817036#t6817036
http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/156172.html?thread=6820108#t6820108
None of these comments receive a mod response.
October 7, 12:21 PM EST or somewhere around there: Vetting period ends. Comments on the tagset review post and the last call post are closed.
October 7, 12:28 PM EST: The first comment on the "vetting period ended" post objects to the other posts being closed to comments. A response is...unlikely.
October 7, 2013, 2:52 PM EST: Commenter dhampyresa states that as long as other user's issues are still being addressed, she would like Gwen Stacy added to the tagset.
October 7, 2013, 2:59 PM EST: jenn_calaelen responds. Gwen Stacy has been added to the tagset, as Clone Gwen Stacy (Ultimateverse). (If you're looking for her, she's currently in Unassociated Characters & Relationships.) "Clone Gwen Stacy (Ultimateverse)" now shows as a nominated character in Ultimate Comics Spider-Man.