AND THAT'S WHAT I THINK ABOUT WHITEWASHING ARTEMIS CROCK

[dudski]

ETA 5/21/14: HI, JOSH. IS IT REALLY NECESSARY TO CHECK IN ON THIS POST FROM TIME TO TIME? BECAUSE YOU DO IT KIND OF A LOT. YOU DO YOU, I GUESS, BUT IT'S A LITTLE WEIRD TO KEEP COMING BACK AROUND TEN MONTHS AFTER I BLOCKED YOU. MAYBE LET IT GO.

Comments

[dudski]

When Artemis Crock first appeared in the series, the thought of her being half asian didn't cross our minds.

Sure: The assumption (which is problematic in and of itself and symptomatic of a culture that presents whiteness as the default) upon approaching the series without any outside information is going to be that Artemis is white. I came to the series assuming she was white. But I don't see how that's relevant to my argument, which is based entirely on how blindingly stupid and offensive it is to assert that it's okay to decide Artemis looks white when there is no reason to think so if you've actually watched the series.

Hell it didn't even cross Ollie's mind, when trying to pass her off as his niece just because of their blonde hair.

...Ollie knows she's half Vietnamese, though, because at that point, a) he's met her mother, who is Vietnamese, and b) HE HAS SEEN ARTEMIS, who actually looks like she's half Vietnamese. If he were Lawrence's brother, Artemis would really be his niece, and she would still look half Vietnamese. Nobody in the cave during the "oh, she's my niece" introduction thinks Artemis is white, because they can see her, and apart from her blonde hair she very strongly resembles her mother and sister, who are apparently obviously Vietnamese enough for everyone.

did any of us have a problem accepting Artemis of being asian decent? No, why? Because it was portrayed convincingly.

Um, apparently people DO have a problem accepting it or at least RESPECTING it, because people keep fancasting her as a white girl, and I was directly responding to someone who was insisting, despite the overwhelming evidence of EVERY SINGLE FRAME OF THE SHOW ARTEMIS HAS EVER BEEN IN, that it could be consistent with canon for Artemis to look white. As for "portrayed convincingly," the fact that there's such a strong tendency to default to seeing everyone as white that the word "convincingly" even comes up is pretty much the entire problem. What would UNCONVINCINGLY portraying her as half Vietnamese even look like?

Same thing with Scarlett Johansson being cast as the russian Black Widow.

Not the same thing.

Also lets be fair in pointing out the fact that Artemis Crock in the comics originally was NEVER of asian descent.

That is DEFINITELY relevant if a) someone is explaining that their white depiction of Artemis is actually comics!Artemis, not YJ!Artemis, or b) it's two and a half years ago, Downtime hasn't aired yet, and someone assumes Artemis is white because they're familiar with her from the comics. Otherwise...what? We're still talking about people who have seen the entire series and still fancast her as white or argue that maybe she looks white. She doesn't.

[dudski]

I thought you were implying that people should automatically get that Artemis is of asian descent just by looking at her?

Jesus Christ, don't bother commenting if you're just going to pull bullshit like this. Literally the first thing I said was that people are going to assume she's white and that I came to the show assuming she was white. This default assumption of whiteness is shitty for a lot of reasons, but I've already openly conceded that it's how people are likely to approach the character, so kindly stop making up shit that I'm "implying."

I'm done with this. I've already explained that a) the show visually established that Artemis resembles her Vietnamese mother more closely than her white father, b) putting a person of color into a traditionally white role is NOT THE SAME as the reverse, c) supposed ambiguities like Stephenie Lemelin being white are bullshit people use to justify whitewashing, d) representation matters, and e) the hypothetical appearance of a hypothetical biracial person is not a valid counter to Artemis's canon appearance.

You clearly can't or won't engage reasonably, and this is my space, so I'm cutting you off.

As for the Cassandra Cain comment, the OP I was referring to is jncera, as seen at the very top of my LJ post.