It's not that he talks like old world money as much as he talks like an intellectual, which is a class of people almost universally despised by the blue-collar working class.
From the union-rep's view, Fraser is perceived as being uppity, a college-educated know-it-all who looks down his nose at those who "work for a living." He holds himself aloof from the police brotherhood, as well, which just makes him seem all the more snobbish.
The problem is, of course, that Fraser's background is from blue-collar working class, just an extremely rural version of it.
bakaknight makes a point about librarians not being lower class, but these aren't your typical librarians. They aren't your college-educated MLA's who've come to the NWT to bring the light of knowledge to the uneducated masses. These are librarians-by-accident, people who saw a need and a niche in a difficult environment and ran with it.
bakaknight also has a valid point about allowances and other diplomatic niceties (my ex's father was once the Army's attaché to Canada and he got an allowance
( ... )
the union rep sees the Serge, hears Fraser's diction and vocabulary, and assumes that means Fraser is a well-off, well-educated upper-class intellectual. And Ray thinks that Fraser is actually more like a soldier from the southern US - poor, under-educated, rurally-raised.
Interesting! I get that Fraser ironically can be compared to an US soldier of a certain background, but nobody in most parts of the US would look at him like that from the first, surface impression.
I get the Southern GI comparison and it definitely makes sense when held up as a comparison to the union rep's assumptions, but I'd never call Fraser "under-educated." Yes, he certainly lacks in more formal education, but his grandparents and his own desire for knowledge seem to have led to a great breadth and depth of education for him. Though I suppose that brings up the whole complicated treatment of home-schooling. There are certainly some who would look down on him for not proceeding onto college or the like, but in other circles home-schooling is often seen as resulting in a superior education to what one might end up with in a more traditional setting, particularly when one grows up in either a very rural or very urban/inner-city environment.
Replace "under educated" with "lack of formal education". I agree, Fraser's desire for knowledge has taken him very far in becoming educated.
The general perception of home-schooling has been shifting to something more acceptable, even superior to traditional schooling, I'll agree. But that's not the case universally.
There are still places where "home-schooling" means your parents are too damn poor to send you to the regular school. In some places there is still a stigma attached to being home-schooled.
There are still places where "home-schooling" means your parents are too damn poor to send you to the regular school.
Or are crazy right-wing fundamentalists. Well, in the US, anyway.
And, yes, I do agree that there's definitely still a stigma attached to people being home-schooled. Whether it's a sign of poverty or because people will assume that home-schooled kids end up socially awkward (though sometimes I definitely think that did happen with Fraser) or for some other reason.
The general perception of home-schooling has been shifting to something more acceptable, even superior to traditional schooling, I'll agree. But that's not the case universally.
It sure isn't. My first knee-jerk reaction to "home-schooled child" is always that the poor thing has either religious fanatics for parents, or whacko latter day hippies. That's heightened by the fact that most people in the US have ready access to either public or private schools (though most can't afford the latter), and that I believe it is legally required for parents to send their children to school. They can't just decide to keep them home - not without some unpleasant consequences.
As a teacher, I belong to a lot of teaching communities as well as listserves that email important articles about teaching. Homeschooling is on the rise in many groups other than the two you mentioned (for example African-American and Muslim families who don't think their kids needs are getting met at public schools), and it's going up every year. As for legality, it depends on the state, but it's not as difficult as you might think - sometimes all it is is a matter of sending a letter to the local superintendent letting him know you'll be homeschooling your kid(s). Many states have had homeschooling coalitions go to bat for their right to homeschool, and they've always won (or successfully sued/petitioned to have the anti-homeschooling law reversed).
Yes. I always thought that Fraser's grandparents had no formal training or qualification on the subject but came to that career out of experience and vocation. And we know his grandmother was a teacher when she was young but again probably just because she was educated in some way rather than being qualified. But then his grandmother was probably a teacher at a time and place where there wouldn't be formal qualifcations.
his grandmother was probably a teacher at a time and place where there wouldn't be formal qualifications
This intrigued me as a teacher. As for place, you're definitely right - a little examination of the Beaufort Delta Education Council website showed that there were unqualified teachers who just just mail-ordered some books and went to work educating local kids til as late as the 1970s(!). Interestingly enough, farther south there were "normal schools" for teacher training starting in the 1790s (Canadian Encyclopedia.com). The flip in the numbers there just makes that disparity all the more shocking.
(formal china dishes; the occasional hiring of a butler; the occasional hiring of somebody I can only describe as a 'presentationist' - a person who doesn't cook, but who makes the food you cook look really fantastic on the plate, and it's really an incredibly interesting process to watch; cleaning lady - some even have a live-in maid and/or butler; random presents for other people; random alcohol from your home country; curtains; furniture; housing; heating; Canada itself is often counted as a cold-weather posting, so there's gym membership allowances and cold-weather clothing if you happen to be posted up here... - really, Fraser should not be living where he does in either s1-2 or s3-4; he's actually got an image to maintain for Canada, not for him - and he's actually managing to let Canada down in this respect, which may contribute to the comparatively low opinions of him that are held by both of his supervisors. It's not really about being frugal vs. spendthrift, and from that point of view I have a certain amount more belief in
( ... )
They aren't your college-educated MLA's who've come to the NWT to bring the light of knowledge to the uneducated masses.
You know, I assumed that his grandparents were those people, and that's partly why Fraser is so isolated even in the Northwest Territories. The fact that his grandmother was a teacher in China also suggests that she had opportunities open to her that are not open to Fraser. But do we get any solid evidence either way?
You're so very, very good at saying what I'm thinking!
Yeah, Fraser's grandparents are very much missionaries; that they concentrate on bringing secular knowledge rather than primarily religious knowledge puts them in a very specific phase of the Scottish Presbyterian missionary movement as it played out in the Northwest and the Canadian far north. I actually had a fifth grade teacher who was a tag-end remnant of that movement (stopping to point out that I'm 56, which makes this less science-fictiony) and who retired and joined the Peace Corps the year fter she taught my class.
Julia, there's a lot of very specific early twentieth century that gets slipped in the what Fraser says about himself.
From the union-rep's view, Fraser is perceived as being uppity, a college-educated know-it-all who looks down his nose at those who "work for a living." He holds himself aloof from the police brotherhood, as well, which just makes him seem all the more snobbish.
The problem is, of course, that Fraser's background is from blue-collar working class, just an extremely rural version of it.
bakaknight makes a point about librarians not being lower class, but these aren't your typical librarians. They aren't your college-educated MLA's who've come to the NWT to bring the light of knowledge to the uneducated masses. These are librarians-by-accident, people who saw a need and a niche in a difficult environment and ran with it.
bakaknight also has a valid point about allowances and other diplomatic niceties (my ex's father was once the Army's attaché to Canada and he got an allowance ( ... )
Reply
Interesting! I get that Fraser ironically can be compared to an US soldier of a certain background, but nobody in most parts of the US would look at him like that from the first, surface impression.
I better go read this "Eight Sessions" story.
Reply
Which is the whole point. Fraser presents one impression, when in reality he's more closely related to something 180 degrees from what he presents...
*headtilt*
You haven't read "Eight Sessions"?
Reply
I don't think so....it's late and my brain is fried - I have read "Some Strange Prophesy".
Reply
Reply
Replace "under educated" with "lack of formal education". I agree, Fraser's desire for knowledge has taken him very far in becoming educated.
The general perception of home-schooling has been shifting to something more acceptable, even superior to traditional schooling, I'll agree. But that's not the case universally.
There are still places where "home-schooling" means your parents are too damn poor to send you to the regular school. In some places there is still a stigma attached to being home-schooled.
Reply
Or are crazy right-wing fundamentalists. Well, in the US, anyway.
And, yes, I do agree that there's definitely still a stigma attached to people being home-schooled. Whether it's a sign of poverty or because people will assume that home-schooled kids end up socially awkward (though sometimes I definitely think that did happen with Fraser) or for some other reason.
Reply
It sure isn't. My first knee-jerk reaction to "home-schooled child" is always that the poor thing has either religious fanatics for parents, or whacko latter day hippies. That's heightened by the fact that most people in the US have ready access to either public or private schools (though most can't afford the latter), and that I believe it is legally required for parents to send their children to school. They can't just decide to keep them home - not without some unpleasant consequences.
Reply
Reply
Yes. I always thought that Fraser's grandparents had no formal training or qualification on the subject but came to that career out of experience and vocation. And we know his grandmother was a teacher when she was young but again probably just because she was educated in some way rather than being qualified. But then his grandmother was probably a teacher at a time and place where there wouldn't be formal qualifcations.
Reply
This intrigued me as a teacher. As for place, you're definitely right - a little examination of the Beaufort Delta Education Council website showed that there were unqualified teachers who just just mail-ordered some books and went to work educating local kids til as late as the 1970s(!). Interestingly enough, farther south there were "normal schools" for teacher training starting in the 1790s (Canadian Encyclopedia.com). The flip in the numbers there just makes that disparity all the more shocking.
Reply
Reply
You know, I assumed that his grandparents were those people, and that's partly why Fraser is so isolated even in the Northwest Territories. The fact that his grandmother was a teacher in China also suggests that she had opportunities open to her that are not open to Fraser. But do we get any solid evidence either way?
Reply
Reply
Reply
Yeah, Fraser's grandparents are very much missionaries; that they concentrate on bringing secular knowledge rather than primarily religious knowledge puts them in a very specific phase of the Scottish Presbyterian missionary movement as it played out in the Northwest and the Canadian far north. I actually had a fifth grade teacher who was a tag-end remnant of that movement (stopping to point out that I'm 56, which makes this less science-fictiony) and who retired and joined the Peace Corps the year fter she taught my class.
Julia, there's a lot of very specific early twentieth century that gets slipped in the what Fraser says about himself.
Reply
Leave a comment