re: 5), one of the things I always found interesting in Quark is that his Ferengi pride, so to speak, is depending on being far from Ferenginar. (Which always reminds me of Shaw's, or was it Wilde's, observation that the romance of being Irish starts the moment you leave Ireland for good.) He's actually miserable on the few occasions we see him on his home planet, and we do know he used to work on a Marauder as a young Ferengi, so he probably left as soon as he could. Now part of this is because Quark genuinenly seems to enjoy interacting with non-Ferengi, but part undoubtedly is due to his family, though the never seen an departed Keldar as much as Moogie if various bits of dialogue over the seasons are anything to go by. (Since Keldar, as opposed to Ishka, was bad at making profit and seems to have been very much like Rom, in fact, Quark was soundly mocked as a child.) So compensation, certainly, but distancing not so much - well, from Ishka, but not Rom, considering Quark in his bullying way always seems to have considered himself responsible for Rom; also Sisko's blackmail in the pilot episode would never have worked if Quark had simply cut himself off from Nog and declared to be none of his concern if his nephew ends up in prison. (There's also the fact that the women Quark is attracted to all invariably are the exact opposite of what the Ferengi "ideal" is supposed to be, and with one exception not even Ferengi - yet he's also unable to conclude the ideal itself is wrong. I like contradiction and inner conflict in my characters.)
On another level, Quark's Ferengi-values-forever attitude when being elsewhere is also a self-chosen way to preserve identity. If I may go Doylist for a moment, I always appreciated that neither Rom nor Nog, much as I love them, are the main Ferengi character on the show, because on every other Trek they would have been, and that would have added an "we like someone from another culture as long as they acknowledge our way is superior and adapt to it" subtext. Now obviously for Nog going Starfleet and for Rom going engineer is liberating - but we've been there before, and it's not the only story you can tell.
re.7.) Since the moment he heard Worf would stay on DS9. Also, I bet the writers, most of whom worked on TNG as well, had fun with that bit of self mockery.
ETA: also, no question relating to Brunt, FCA? (Aka Jeffrey Combs, god of multiple roles on this show.)
I agree that Quark has a lot of inner conflict - actually, I'd like to see more in the Federation characters - but he still seems very determined to enforce Ferengi values when it gives him an advantage (which is in itself probably a Ferengi value!) While he definitely cares about his family (even the rebellious Ishka), he's also extremely controlling, and uses "values" as a way to do that while also being quite happy to break the rules for himself when it benefits him. He won't break those rules for Rom or Nog or Ishka until his hand is forced.
I agree that he's attracted to unusual Ferengi women or non-Ferengi, but I think that's because they're his equals...and (AFAIK, having not seen to the end) he doesn't bring them into his family - the Klingon marriage was not really deliberate! It reminds me of Don Draper from Mad Men, having affairs with powerful/interesting/independent women but as soon as he marries one, they have to be his dependent, kept at home while he does what he wants. "Wife" and "peer" are separate categories for him, just as "family" and "peer" are for Quark.
I agree that Quark has a lot of inner conflict - actually, I'd like to see more in the Federation characters - but he still seems very determined to enforce Ferengi values when it gives him an advantage (which is in itself probably a Ferengi value!
True. Body Parts (have we done that yet or is it s5? can't remember) pushes it to a different point, though, in that Quark finds himself trapped in a situation where adhering to Ferengi rules is harming no one but himself. And then there's the big episode which definitely is s5 where, to put it as unspoilery as possible, it's ultimate profit versus lives (and his relationship with Jadzia, which despite Quark's mixed feelings is not romantic in nature).
the Klingon marriage was not really deliberate!
No, but his actions with Grilka in Looking for Par'mach in all the wrong places are. Also, going back toHouse of Quark, his going back to face D'Gor instead of hightailing it out of Dodge as he originally means to most certainly is. If he had miscalculated about shaming D'Gor and Klingon machismo in front of the High Council, he would have died and there would have been no other reason for it than to help Grilka.
re: Don Draper, interesting comparison, and I see your point, but I also see the difference. Because Don would have married Pel (the Ferengi Yentl in s2) and they'd have proceeded to making each other miserable (err, mostly he'd have made her miserable). Quark knew he wouldn't be capable of offering Pel a marriage of equals, so he didn't. If we're comparing Quark to American white males, I'd say he reminds me basically of a homosexual Republican in the closet, though maybe that's not quite it, either, because it's not like he's hiding his attraction to all the ladies in question, or attempts to force them to live in the closest (but then part of the attraction is that he literally can't, he has no social power over them, and in the instance where he could aquire such power, with Pel, he point blank refuses).
re: Quark's inability to see family members as peers or treat them as such and unableness to break the rules for them unless in extremis (mostly if their lives are threatened or his existence is): that comes closer to the Republican-in-the-closet/Don Draper model. Mind you, this particular episode ("Bar Association") represents a certain shift because as Rom points out at the end, by not working for Quark any longer and creating a life that doesn't depend on hoping to inherit the bar one day, he (Rom) actually puts their relationship on a better (and more voluntary) basis. I think it's also worth looking at Quark's relationship with the Nagus as to Quark's idea of how (male) Ferengi relationships are supposed to work. I forgot which episode (I think it's the s3 one where the Prophets have altered the Nagus), but Quark and Rom have a conversation about the Nagus which goes along the lines - Q: He always liked me/R: He always used you. Not the same thing/Q: Don't you see, he used me because he liked me! - and I find that incredibly telling. (Sidenote: of course Rom is right about the Nagus.) Though, again: if he'd stayed on Ferenginar, he could have lived the life fully controlling his family, with all the social conditions in his favour, yet moving back is the one response to Nog and Rom going their own ways that never seems to occur to him. (Quark's favourite fantasy of owning his own moon tellingly still means being elsewhere, not on Ferenginar.)
Haven't seen Body Parts or Looking for Par'mach in all the wrong places yet! I do agree that Quark is one big step more advanced than Don Draper (probably through greater social contact with equals of very different backgrounds) or you'd be right about him marrying Pel. Don tries to control what he doesn't own, Quark tries to control what he does own.
Great point about the Nagus! That's very true about Quark's relationships with other male Ferengi - he might well think that his controlling relationship modelled on the Nagus' treatment of him is a very good one. The Nagus gives Quark a small chance to advance in status or wealth every time he uses him! Maybe the way that Quark is more advanced than Don Draper (greater contact with very different equals) is a two-way street: he desired it, both romantically and personally, which got him off Ferenginar in the first place; the more contact he had, the more he both enjoyed his equals and controlled those he was responsible for.
A bit more background speculation: children's first role models (to imitate or reject) are usually their parents. Ishka is a financial genius, has great will power, is in many ways the ideal Ferengi - but she's a woman. Of Keldar, we only know that he was "good with family", bad with finances, and that both Ishka and Quark compare him to Rom. So basically in terms of traditional Ferengi values, Keldar was a "bad" Ferengi, yet their society also is structured in a way that means he's supposed to be head of the household and the ones for Quark and Rom to look up to. Rom seems to have responded by indeed modelling himself after Keldar and enjoying a good relationship with his mother, and let's not forget, he's the one who got married and had a child (though the marriage failed, we later hear more about why and how it ended). But despite that, until Nog wants to go to Starfleet he also never tries to strike out on his own (or live on Ferenginar with his mother), instead, he seems to have followed Quark into space, spends his life with his brother instead of going his own path, and submits to him, occasional attempts at bar gaining schemes side, until, again, Nog and Starfleet. Meanwhile, Quark seems to have solved (or not) the conflict between the reality of his parents and what their society tells him they should be like by picking the Nagus as a paternal role model instead, leaving home at the first opportunity and staying away if he can. BUT he also takes Rom along (or brings him in later after Rom's marriage ends, canon isn't clear on that) and tries to be the übercontrolling head of house hold (without ever trying to marry and have a child himself). And while we never through all the seasons hear Quark say anything critical about his late father, I think at least some of the "idiots" throwing at Rom's direction are channelled and unadmitted Keldar resentments.
On another level, Quark's Ferengi-values-forever attitude when being elsewhere is also a self-chosen way to preserve identity. If I may go Doylist for a moment, I always appreciated that neither Rom nor Nog, much as I love them, are the main Ferengi character on the show, because on every other Trek they would have been, and that would have added an "we like someone from another culture as long as they acknowledge our way is superior and adapt to it" subtext. Now obviously for Nog going Starfleet and for Rom going engineer is liberating - but we've been there before, and it's not the only story you can tell.
re.7.) Since the moment he heard Worf would stay on DS9. Also, I bet the writers, most of whom worked on TNG as well, had fun with that bit of self mockery.
ETA: also, no question relating to Brunt, FCA? (Aka Jeffrey Combs, god of multiple roles on this show.)
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I agree that he's attracted to unusual Ferengi women or non-Ferengi, but I think that's because they're his equals...and (AFAIK, having not seen to the end) he doesn't bring them into his family - the Klingon marriage was not really deliberate! It reminds me of Don Draper from Mad Men, having affairs with powerful/interesting/independent women but as soon as he marries one, they have to be his dependent, kept at home while he does what he wants. "Wife" and "peer" are separate categories for him, just as "family" and "peer" are for Quark.
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True. Body Parts (have we done that yet or is it s5? can't remember) pushes it to a different point, though, in that Quark finds himself trapped in a situation where adhering to Ferengi rules is harming no one but himself. And then there's the big episode which definitely is s5 where, to put it as unspoilery as possible, it's ultimate profit versus lives (and his relationship with Jadzia, which despite Quark's mixed feelings is not romantic in nature).
the Klingon marriage was not really deliberate!
No, but his actions with Grilka in Looking for Par'mach in all the wrong places are. Also, going back toHouse of Quark, his going back to face D'Gor instead of hightailing it out of Dodge as he originally means to most certainly is. If he had miscalculated about shaming D'Gor and Klingon machismo in front of the High Council, he would have died and there would have been no other reason for it than to help Grilka.
re: Don Draper, interesting comparison, and I see your point, but I also see the difference. Because Don would have married Pel (the Ferengi Yentl in s2) and they'd have proceeded to making each other miserable (err, mostly he'd have made her miserable). Quark knew he wouldn't be capable of offering Pel a marriage of equals, so he didn't. If we're comparing Quark to American white males, I'd say he reminds me basically of a homosexual Republican in the closet, though maybe that's not quite it, either, because it's not like he's hiding his attraction to all the ladies in question, or attempts to force them to live in the closest (but then part of the attraction is that he literally can't, he has no social power over them, and in the instance where he could aquire such power, with Pel, he point blank refuses).
re: Quark's inability to see family members as peers or treat them as such and unableness to break the rules for them unless in extremis (mostly if their lives are threatened or his existence is): that comes closer to the Republican-in-the-closet/Don Draper model. Mind you, this particular episode ("Bar Association") represents a certain shift because as Rom points out at the end, by not working for Quark any longer and creating a life that doesn't depend on hoping to inherit the bar one day, he (Rom) actually puts their relationship on a better (and more voluntary) basis. I think it's also worth looking at Quark's relationship with the Nagus as to Quark's idea of how (male) Ferengi relationships are supposed to work. I forgot which episode (I think it's the s3 one where the Prophets have altered the Nagus), but Quark and Rom have a conversation about the Nagus which goes along the lines - Q: He always liked me/R: He always used you. Not the same thing/Q: Don't you see, he used me because he liked me! - and I find that incredibly telling. (Sidenote: of course Rom is right about the Nagus.) Though, again: if he'd stayed on Ferenginar, he could have lived the life fully controlling his family, with all the social conditions in his favour, yet moving back is the one response to Nog and Rom going their own ways that never seems to occur to him. (Quark's favourite fantasy of owning his own moon tellingly still means being elsewhere, not on Ferenginar.)
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Great point about the Nagus! That's very true about Quark's relationships with other male Ferengi - he might well think that his controlling relationship modelled on the Nagus' treatment of him is a very good one. The Nagus gives Quark a small chance to advance in status or wealth every time he uses him! Maybe the way that Quark is more advanced than Don Draper (greater contact with very different equals) is a two-way street: he desired it, both romantically and personally, which got him off Ferenginar in the first place; the more contact he had, the more he both enjoyed his equals and controlled those he was responsible for.
Reply
A bit more background speculation: children's first role models (to imitate or reject) are usually their parents. Ishka is a financial genius, has great will power, is in many ways the ideal Ferengi - but she's a woman. Of Keldar, we only know that he was "good with family", bad with finances, and that both Ishka and Quark compare him to Rom. So basically in terms of traditional Ferengi values, Keldar was a "bad" Ferengi, yet their society also is structured in a way that means he's supposed to be head of the household and the ones for Quark and Rom to look up to. Rom seems to have responded by indeed modelling himself after Keldar and enjoying a good relationship with his mother, and let's not forget, he's the one who got married and had a child (though the marriage failed, we later hear more about why and how it ended). But despite that, until Nog wants to go to Starfleet he also never tries to strike out on his own (or live on Ferenginar with his mother), instead, he seems to have followed Quark into space, spends his life with his brother instead of going his own path, and submits to him, occasional attempts at bar gaining schemes side, until, again, Nog and Starfleet. Meanwhile, Quark seems to have solved (or not) the conflict between the reality of his parents and what their society tells him they should be like by picking the Nagus as a paternal role model instead, leaving home at the first opportunity and staying away if he can. BUT he also takes Rom along (or brings him in later after Rom's marriage ends, canon isn't clear on that) and tries to be the übercontrolling head of house hold (without ever trying to marry and have a child himself). And while we never through all the seasons hear Quark say anything critical about his late father, I think at least some of the "idiots" throwing at Rom's direction are channelled and unadmitted Keldar resentments.
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