If you don't agree, you're better than me.

[drrocketanski]

I think it may be true that:

1) The unity of a society grows to the extent that there is agreement on what offends.  Friendships seem to grow in the same way.

2) There is (almost?) nothing that is "naturally" offensive.  I would suggest that God is never offended by anything (though He is saddened and angered by things).

What I mean by "to be offended

Comments

[nur_jahan]

this is the only thing that I can think of after reading this:

we all love drama because it makes us feel better about ourselves. If we sit and figure out who that person 'really is', it gives us either a reason to stay clear of them or provides a good filler of time.

I know that I do this, but this still pisses me off (sorry if that word is offensive :). I think we need to get past the contemplative reasons why someone is who they are and why they do the things that they do...I want to, then say 'figure out how to help them or feel sad *bleh..dum word* for them; or, even, that we should pray for them, but I'm not sure if that makes any sense...

I don't know...the only thing that I can think of to represent what I say is to look at movie stars...they do one thing wrong and we/media burn them to the ground. so, now, we as their so called fans, have a reason to look down on them...'hey they ARE humans after all.' !!!!for crying out loud: it really took some brains to figure that out.!!!! people really like to categorize things, and I think that is the basis of a lot of problems...

Don't you think that those celebs need help? I think we intend to demean them from the beginning and its sickening for many reasons, because we start to demean ourselves for one...

I think we do that (spend too much time 'rising above them') amongst our friends and family, which is really pathetic in my mind. We know them better, so we can critisize them better than most anyone.

Yes, we need to critisize, so we can learn and teach; know how to change, etc. But I'm not sure that can be done unless we stop pretending that we somehow can see the ultimate result or resolution of person's outcome. Yes, people are predictable, but God, often is not.

There is seomthing to people wanting to come together and discuss a person. We initially care about them but we start to lose the point when we discuss and then walk away as if by having it all 'cleared up' is going to prove that we know have it all worked out.

Why don't we come together and use that time not to just discuss, but instead to lament, to weep, to fight (depending on how strongly you believe), to w/e? idk, just some thoughts

[drrocketanski]

I've had a hard time knowing how what you're saying has anything to do with this post. I could only figure this out by thinking about the kind of person you are (or, perhaps, "aren't" would be better). Then it began to make sense.

I don't have any idea how anyone is supposed to interact with anyone without trying to figure out who they are. Yes, we often let our initial reactions override evidence to the contrary (e.g., you think someone is some way, and then no matter how long/often they are not that way, you keep thinking they're that way), but we can't get rid of all judgments (judgments = attempts to understand someone).

Well, we can. I have no judgments about people for whom I care nothing.

I question the motivation or desire to avoid judgments. The day when I stop trying to judge who you are is the day I stop caring for you, or, perhaps, the day you stop being a real person.

But being understood by someone is often one of the most offensive things we can experience. There's nothing worse than no longer being a mystery. Except, perhaps, no longer being a person/significant.

[nur_jahan]

I think my reply streamed somewhere from 'I think we are incapable of making sense of life without being offended.' but I don't know how...and nor do I care to try and explain myself, but I will, a very little, anyway.

I have a bad bad tendency to let my mind stream from the point, but I enjoy it too much because there's something about thinking of things because seomthing makes you think of it...anyway...

I'm not, and I can only assume that you would think so because you seem to enjoy making assumptions about people more than I have ever seen anyone, talking about me in this little 'off-based' reply. Since you seem to assume that it is about me, I will tickle your little belly (even though you seem to think that you were tickling mine). I don't mind being judged, I just don't like it when it has to be announced within a situation that is usually set up around a bunch of people who I don't know and I definetly don't do well with being thrown into a situation where I have to defend myself and have had no time to think things through, both of which you have a tendency to put myself and, I'm sure, others in, both at the same time.

You take a lot of time getting used to, I guess.

Anyway, that wasn't what my 'reply' was about but since it was way off the point I won't take the time to try and reiterate. I won't waste your time again.

[grease_1978]

Travis,

I think that the point of Barbie's response is that she believes that one thing that is "naturally offensive" is being "assumed" as something you are not...or even that someone would announce their assumption, no matter how right it might be, and be utterly cold about it.

If you are going to judge another person you should be there on the flip-side. Heck, you should be there from the beginning. If you love and know someone you can judge them...but you should also look for opportunities to bring justice to them as well.

I know this is gonna be cheesey and our cynical minds have a hard time with it - but we do need to pull each other down off our high horses sometiems...but we also need to be there to pull each other UP from the ground, too.

- Chrissy

---------------------------

Barbie,

The way that you say things just begs for judgement. :) And you know that Travis loves this kind of stuff. You both can pretty much disect each other perfectly. The only thing missing in your relationship is love/care.

- Chrissy

[nur_jahan]

I don't know how and am too scared to try and think too hard about it, so I'm just going to say that 'what you said, Chrissy, seems pretty rite on with what my point was.'

Okay, in not considering the love/care part, I think a huge thing is that I don't make any sense and this gives Travis a fine little pole to dance on (as he should), and I just get irritated and frustrated at myself which tends to be expended on him or anyone who likes to point out that I'm an idiot. (no I'm not begging for someone to lift my downcasted chin a little higher, I'm just pointing out a fact right now)

This is why I say that I don't mind being judged, because I have always learned and continue to learn from what people tell me. I just instinctivally react badly to it and always tend to give people a hard time because of it.

...ugh! I hate that I replied to this post and I hate that you have to be the little mediator...I hate it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 I am not craving attention and I hate having to defend myself over and over: if I want to make a point I have to step away from the fact so that I can defend who I am. I'm sick of it all!!!! And so I hate the idea of building any kind of relationship on something I hate about myself....I'm sure I didn't explain myself thoroughly enough so let me try again:

I don't like that I say things which can be judged, not because I hate being judged, but because I am sick of how I am viewed and not viewed and it is only in my power that it can be changed, apparently.

I don't like that I say things which are full of contradictions or however it is that I say it. I feel as if this whole thing is a lesson in it of itself. I want to learn how to say things so they are more understood.

It isn't clever of me; it isn't deep of me to come up with stuff that is off the topic...I sound more like I'm off my rocker than anything else. I don't think I should remain this way and when you talk about forming relationships based on this it makes me sick to my stomach. I don't want to build anything out of this and I don't intend to either.

[drrocketanski]

I think you've both missed my point. I'm not judging Barbie in this post. But that says something, I think. Perhaps I'm simply wrong about myself. Wouldn't be the first time.