"Every plan has a fatal flaw. Sometimes it's the heart."
So Revenge has been back for three weeks, and it just kept getting better with every episode. I'm glad I finally have a chance to express my abundant feelings about it! This contains spoilers for the latest two episodes which I loved a lot ( Read more... )
This show enjoys causing me pain by making my favourite suffer, so I think it's very possible. Let's face it, this blackout is HAPPENING because hello epic episode prospects. If it won't be Nolan who cracks, they might blackmail Marco into do it by kidnapping/torturing Nolan.
Even if she was a plant - I mean, it seemed very clear that they have something on her.
Yeah, it's just a matter of WHEN she became one... was she deceiving him from the start. Whether their relationship was tainted from the beginning.
... she does indeed care for Nolan and she might not have anticipated that at all.
This is a sure thing, though. I think this will be important when, like you say, there will come a time when she needs to make a choice - and yes, maybe even a sacrifice - for him, and I do believe her sympathies for him will be a major determinator. I'd go as far as to say that when push comes to shove, he will try not to let her trade her life for his, but she'll do it anyway. It will be a very dramatic way for the show to clear her name and traumatise Nolan further, so I can angst and write a thesis of a meta about how he just can't catch a break.
...he ultimately has his own agenda which is Colleen.
THIS. He clearly puts Colleen not only over Emily, but also over Takeda's agenda against the Initiative. Remember, he was sent on a MISSION to guide Emily towards taking them down - but he only agreed because he thought she was dead! Which makes me think Takeda might interfere now that he's gone off the rails.
But this conflict of interest is definitely the reason why Aiden never made the perfect partner. Indeed, he was never reliable and had a history of vanishing into thin air the second he caught a break on Colleen.
This is why Nolan is essentially the sole best partner for Ems - it's about avenging her father for BOTH of them, a clear common goal.
... although with the casting of Nolan's mother being in the works, I can't help wondering how massively screwed up it would be if his mommy dearest was in charge of the Initiative. What it would mean for his own beliefs, for his partnership with Emily! Why do I actually want this to happen, what is wrong with me.
She knows she has become this person she needed to become in order to execute her revenge and she knows it's doesn't go together with the picture of sweet and innocent Amanda that Jack had from their childhood, that he might indeed be shocked at some of the things she had done. So she knows the best she can do is to walk away and be a friend.
YES, you put it into words perfectly well. Jack has VERY strong morals, and he'd never be okay with Emily's career of playing mind games with the Graysons and hurting others - and especially for lying to him all this time. In any case, he'd be holding her back, which would basically be a deal breaker. I just can't buy them as an endgame... she needs to move forward after she's done with her revenge because she's lived in the past enough.
HEE, I also go for the now names, but I entertain my Nolan stan by going with 'Fauxmanda'. :D I remember how confusing it used to be talking about the show in the beginning. THERE WERE ALL THESE NAMES PEOPLE THOUGHT OF AND NO COMMON GROUND: Amily, Emanda & whatnot. Most people use their current names now to spare everyone the headache, lol.
Your Em/F feelings are my Em/F feelings, especially this:
Emily - much like with Nolan - has realised the loneliness of her existance if she cannot even let their two closest confidants in to a point.
Emily has definitely had a change of heart because Fauxmanda got wise to the fact that she's been manipulating her and wasn't okay with that, and it hit Emily that she took it too far. I think that by not letting Fauxmanda tell Jack the truth after they had their paternity test conversation, Emily also wants Fauxmanda to have that happiness & family which she (F) has always wanted b/c Em feels bad for how she's been treating her.
The identity issue is very interesting, tho... in the end, there can only be one Amanda Clarke.
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Also not sure if they succeed with the blackout: Perhaps I'm giving the writers too much credit but if you watch "Revolution" - that is something that has been done this season already (although different circumstances)... so I still hold out hope that they find a way for a good twist.
Tainted from the beginning or not... it's not like I even ship it. It as just nice to see Nolan happy and I like the actress who plays Padma. What I'm saying is, no matter when it started I think her feelings are real which makes this scenario you described as their "endgame" (and not as in "happy ending" but very 'Casino Royal'/Vesper Lynd) extremely possible.
Agreed - I think Takeda will intervene if things go off the rails too far. As for Colleen (I saw you discussing it with somebody else): I don't think she works for the enemy - I think either she is really dead and that video is old or they just turned her into a drug addict, keeping her captive, perhaps there is some sort of Stockholm syndrom involved, definitely a drug addiction that might make her their puppet. But yes, that's why Aiden - sadly - won't be any good for Emily: She offered her help to him back then and she did it last episode (although there not without forgetting her own agenda) and both times he denied her.
I didn't know they were casting Nolan's mother. Ach... I'm not sure I'm up for more complications of that sort. :(
No I don't see J/E as endgame either. As you said, I think Amanda standing up for herself and Emily seeing Amanda as well as Jack could be happy with the baby and their little life - I'm sure it gave her some dull pain somewhere but over all I think she loves them both and knows that closest she can come to that sort of happiness is being the godmother and friend. I can't see Emily destroying this out of selfishness in the end. And as you said, I think although it's a bit bitter that she cannot have something like that, I think she is glad for Amanda that she can have that family and again as you said, she knows that Jack couldn't grasp her vendetta - because he's not only a stand-up but also kind of a forgiving guy (like with --- again with the bloody names I'm so bad at --- their business partners: I think Jack sees that the first brother realises that they made a mistake and went to far and is willing to just leave it at that, and I think with time Jack would forgive and move on, he'd definitely not go for revenge, so you see the difference).
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As for the identity issue: I think Amanda doesn't see herself as "Amanda Clarke" - when she is with Charlotte I think she acts in a sisterly way because (a) she always wished for a family and she can sense that Charlotte is lost within all that Grayson drama and most importantly (b) Amanda regards Emily sort of as a sister and I think she knows (I mean look - Emily is offering Charlotte to stay with her after the clinic, she buys her gifts etc, yet she can never reveal their blood relationship to Charlotte, she'll always be either a friend at best or only Daniel's girlfriend) that Emily wishes she could be closer to Charlotte (again because she sees that she is lost with these horrible people and there is a blood bond), so what Amanda does is she tries her best to act towards Charlotte like she thinks a sister does, like she thinks Emily would do it if she were able to tell the truth.
As for Amanda posing as "Amanda Clarke" around Jack: I think in the beginning that was a problem for her because she asked herself if it was her she loved or the memory of the little girl but I think that changed with the baby and Emily making her feel more secure as in "you guys should be happy". I think in this case to her it's not about idenity anymore it's just a name and it doesn't matter what it is if that makes sense.
As for Emily, I'm not entirely sure she still identifies as Amanda so much but the main focus is that she is David Clarke's daughter. That's her identity - the daughter who has to avenge her father and it doesn't matter what name she uses to do it although in the end she might take the pleasure of telling Victoria who she really is and why she did what she did before the latter's final demise. Because while the Initiative was behind all that, the girl that was Amanda had faith once that Victoria - who she overheard declaring her love for her father - would come and save her and that never happened. That deception is deeply rooted I think. Apart from that I think the only time Emily had a short crisis of identity was when she encountered her mother but then all those painful memories came to light and you saw that she was quick to push her away and out of her life - and I think it wasn't just for her mother's safety, it was also if not mostly because Emily needed to keep herself sane and feeling safe. /long rant
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Very interesting thoughts on how Fauxmanda sees herself! I do think she identifies with being David Clarke's daughter though because she's lived under that name for so long - and had to endure everything it entailed (the harassment for being a convicted terrorist's daughter for one). IA that with Charlotte - and Emily's mother! - she acts in Emily's interests... I liked the scene where Em's mom apologizes to Fauxmanda for drowning her as a kid, and she contemplates a bit & decides that maybe she should preserve Amanda's Clarke bond with the mother & not have her think her daughter never forgave her.
It's also curious because Jack DID fall for Fauxmanda just because she was the little Amanda from his childhood, even though he was already in love with Emily. Now, him having a baby with her, I wonder what finding out the truth would mean to him. I could see him staying with Fauxmanda to do the right thing by the kid, but I feel like a badass cable show would have him stay with Fauxmanda because he's come to love her (again! he WAS in love her, stop retconning that, show!), no matter what her name is, and that would be the ultimate price Emily paid for deceiving him from the get go.
That's her identity - the daughter who has to avenge her father.
Yeah, it's pretty much become her tunnel vision of a life goal.
... it doesn't matter what name she uses to do it although in the end she might take the pleasure of telling Victoria who she really is and why she did what she did before the latter's final demise.
I've just finished reading The Count of Monte Cristo and BOY, does that give me all the Monte Cristo feels. He had all these identities and caused his enemies a lot of pain through them, and while he did came clean to one of his enemies on his deathbed, in two other cases it was TELLING HIS ADVERSARIES HIS REAL NAME that was the ultimate blow from which they never recovered (one went mad; another shot himself) - his biggest revenge...
Emily was quick to push her mother out of the picture. They actually promised us delicious character development for Emily brought on by her mother's return in the form of Emily questioning her own sanity... I hope they haven't abandoned that.
P.S. I have JUST the userpic for this comment.
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and had to endure everything it entailed (the harassment for being a convicted terrorist's daughter for one)
That's what I'm not so sure about. I feel she empathizes with Emily a lot but I don't think she had to endure all that much until Emily re-entered her life. I think Emily trained her well to keep a low profile and deny any sort of comment.
So I think for both of them in the end... Amanda Clarke is or will be just a name, a concept but none of them actually identifies with this person because they don't know who that is even supposed to be anymore, certainly not the little girl from back then. I think Emily may mourn that little girl at some point but ultimately see that's not her, not anymore and therefore accept her Alias. As for Amanda, as I said, I think she sympathizes with Emily and because she loves her she agreed to the name swap in the first place (I don't think it was about the money, not entirely). I think for Amanda names mean nothing, neither her former one, nor the one she goes by now. In the end, what's in a name? Nothing but smoke and mirrors.
but I feel like a badass cable show would have him stay with Fauxmanda because he's come to love her (again! he WAS in love her, stop retconning that, show!)
I couldn't agree more. I really wish that's what they'll go with if the truth ever comes to light. Everything else feels so cliché... not sure if that's the right word but still.
I haven't read that novel in a long time. I should probably revisit it but I can see these things coming into play in the end of the series, after all it is loosely based on the book.
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That's what I'm not so sure about. I feel she empathizes with Emily a lot but I don't think she had to endure all that much until Emily re-entered her life. I think Emily trained her well to keep a low profile and deny any sort of comment.
I think she actually talks about it to Emily in S1 and says how hard it has been for her to endure creeps & reporters hounding the daughter of David Clarke, that's why I brought it up.
... none of them actually identifies with this person because they don't know who that is even supposed to be anymore.
This is very true. That's why I had issues with Aiden calling Emily "Amanda" during their intimate moments and her being okay with that... I got the impression that she wanted to leave that girl behind.
Whether Emily will want her name back when David's name is cleared is actually a very interesting question. I mean, she even plans on having Mason write a book where she comes clean about her entire revenge scheme - and no matter how great a bestseller it would make, her confession might amount to years & years in jail. This is why I feel like she's more likely to change her identity at the end of this & enjoy her father's name being cleared from afar with Nolan who'd also probably end up in jail because of the book.
Whereas Fauxmanda... I don't know. She and Jack who falls madly in love with her again eventually would have to disappear with another identity too if Fauxmanda makes it to the end of the show because both the real Emily Thorne & Amanda Clarke are criminals (Emily Thorne also being the killer who took out Frank).
THAT would be the goddamn controversial ending no one saw coming since the Pilot and the one that people would be talking about for YEARS imo.
The novel is not a light read, but I realised two things reading it [ spoilers for the end of the book ]:
Dantes is a much darker character than Emily since he's not concerned with collateral damage in terms of people who didn't do anything to him directly, like his enemies' children - au contraire, the prospect of them dying seemed fair to him because he considers himself the all-mighty PROVIDENCE. Another thing which validated by N/E & J/E feels is that he stays with his loving & devoted partner in crime in the end b/c he can't possibly get back together with his young love after everything that's happened. He never thought he could be loved again after everything he became, but the devotion of his partner in crime persuades him that "Maybe there is another Mercedes for me in this world yet!" & they literally sail off together. I FEEL SO VALIDATED RN, THIS IS THE BEST.
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Right - see, that's what I mean, what you said about Amanda talking to Emily about the stalkers and how Aiden's and Colleen's dad was involved in the plane crash - I'm so sorry but my mind is so bloody scattered these days I miss a lot of details. So I apologize if I come off as unobservant and stupid at times. Thanks for reminding me of those things I missed! :)
both the real Emily Thorne & Amanda Clarke are criminals
True and is it wrong that I'm totally fangirling them because of their messed up ways - and throwing Nolan into the mix it's like Bonnie and Bonnie and Clyde without an annoying love triangle. Not sure I'm making any sense at all but that's my feelings.
I'm not sure how serious Emily is on giving Mason anything in the end if she can find a more convenient way to clear her father's name. After all Mason is a leech and what Emily did, baiting him and all I think for the moment she did that mostly to get him out of her way. What will happen in the end if she stays true to her word and gives him the story... we'll see.
I've seen a mini-series with Gérard Depardieu once but that has been many many years ago. If I ever get my scattered focus back together and read something, I might as well give it a go. Thanks for the summary! :)
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Oh, it's more than enough, I love that you enjoy their friendship as much as I do & enjoy discussing them & the show with you a lot - sorry if I came off as if I had an issue with you not shipping them. Even without that angle, we agree on a lot of rather controversial things on this show, and I really appreciate that!
Also, don't worry about not remembering this or that scene - I only do because it's one of the few shows I've spent entirely too much time over-analysing, lol. Revenge is deliciously detail-packed, and I'm happy to remind about those things I can think of because I love the way they tie into the current plot - and by NO means because I think less of you for not remembering them. ;)
... it's like Bonnie and Bonnie and Clyde without an annoying love triangle
Oh, I'm totally digging this reference! It actually annoys me A LOT when a show centers on a love triangle so much that it eventually finds that it's got nothing else going for it. This is why I love Revenge - it has a bigger fish to fry and the romance is just a side dish.
Also, Nolan & Fauxmanda should have more scenes together, they have this great snarky dynamic. Her reappearance in Jack's life and now a baby together with him messes with Nolan's dreams of J/A reunion & sailing off into the sunset... and I think it's got more to do with the fact that he wants Emily AWAY from the harm revenge inflicts than anything else.
What will happen in the end if she stays true to her word and gives him the story... we'll see.
You're right... I sort of assumed that Emily spoke from the heart when she promised him the rights to her life story, especially b/c it would be the best way for the world to find out all the details & names of people involved and b/c it ties in w/ the part of her character which doesn't believe in a happy ending for herself.
However, there really is no way of knowing! Besides, the Initiative might get to Mason first...
I've seen a mini-series with Gérard Depardieu once but that has been many many years ago.
I was just wondering which Monte Cristo adaptation would be the best one to watch - there must be SO MANY of them! Come to think of it, the French one would probably be a good start, yes.
As to the book - if you do read, it would be fun to discuss the similarities & differences between Emily & Monte Cristo, so let me know!
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Hmm, I was thinking Revolution is where they got the idea from lol oops. The main point is WHY the Initiative needs it to happen. I dread to think! Something tells me Emily will not only be avenging her father, but also saving the world stopping the Initiative! They don't call her Batmanda for nothing.
A Casino Royal ending for Nolan/Padma will be very much in line with the Bond thematic this season, yes. Looking forward to seeing if we're right about this!
... definitely a drug addiction that might make her their puppet."
Yes, that & Stockholm Syndrome sounds plausible because of how READILY she accepted the needle from the kidnapper's hand & injected it. I think it may be a "do what we tell you to, and you get your fix".
AMEN to everything you said about Emily & Fauxmanda. It just baffles me that they keep saying in interviews that J/E are the couple everyone should root for when the evidence suggests they are a clear mismatch & they hardly got any development since S1 except for the memories. SMH.
... because he's not only a stand-up but also kind of a forgiving guy (like with --- again with the bloody names I'm so bad at --- their business partners: I think Jack sees that the first brother realises that they made a mistake and went to far and is willing to just leave it at that, and I think with time Jack would forgive and move on, he'd definitely not go for revenge, so you see the difference).
Yes, that's a very good way to compare Jack & Emily's feelings on revenge. I feel like Fauxmanda might not be so forgiving though and might figure into what will go down with The Amanda on their wedding day... Suppose she succeeds to take out Nate Ryan so he doesn't push them out of the docks... would Jack be able to live with that? It might be their loophole if they want to shut J/F down.
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I think that's an easy thing to answer by acquiring all these risk assessment firms etc. they are sure to manipulate things on the stock market beforehand to make a considerable profit. (Like... if you've seen "Hunted"?) But yeah, I think Emily and Nolan will figure that out and find a way to interfere somehow.
I think it may be a "do what we tell you to, and you get your fix".
Which is sadly all an addict cares about. So yeah... I can see that rather being the case than her being intentionally "on the dark side". I'd like to know though what Aiden (or his family? or money? or skills?) are that they have target him. If they have cleared that up already I am sorry, I must have missed it.
Yeah that is indeed strange. I can't see J/E happening. Her fondness of him is built on childhood memories and she is not naïve enough to think she can get that back and I think Emily has a moral code to her and she wouldn't cause either Jack or Amanda any grief of the sort of "Hi, now I reveal who I am and everything is based on a lie, me, you, everything..." that just doesn't strike me as her personality.
I haven't seen the promo for next week. I agree that Amanda through her history in Juvie and also everything she has experienced with Emily is way less forgiving but I would hate if anything drove a wedge between her and Jack at this point - from what you wrote it sounds like something will go down on the ship and she might end up hurting somebody. Hopefully it's something that Jack can... I don't know if not respect than accept and file under self-defence or something. As I said, I don't watch trailers.
My problem with shutting off J/A right now because they want to push J/E - wonder why now? It's not like it fits with the current plot at all.
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... oh. I really hope it's about more than just the money, and the profit is just something they like to make on the side. They're known to launder money through Grayson Global, but I don't think it's their goal in life.
See also: the plane crash. Why did they crash that plane? I have a feeling someone important was on that plane.
Takeda also seems to have a huge personal issue with them which I have a feeling goes beyond them scamming him out of some money, idk.
I'd like to know though what Aiden (or his family? or money? or skills?) are that they have target him.
They kidnapped Colleen to bribe Aiden's father the baggage handler at the airport to let the bomb on the plane which they crashed. Hence Takeda welcoming him into the Revenge team to conspire against the Initiative together.
Yeah that is indeed strange. I can't see J/E happening.
No, I can't see Emily coming clean just for her gain, either. MK has always been in love with the idea of J/E, but I feel that as the show progresses, they make less and less sense as an endgame couple for the reasons we discussed. I just hope he won't retcon all this complex development which has made Revenge very unique just to stubbornly realise that original intention.
Oh, no worries, the promo told us NOTHING. ;) Everything I said about Fauxmanda possibly doing something with the explosion is just wild speculation based on the fact that she's a bit of a loose cannon when it comes to protecting her family, and she's had about enough of the Ryans threatening & meddling with their lives.
I'd really, really hate it if they drove a wedge between Jack and Fauxmanda just for the purpose of bringing J/E back to the forefront too. I'm very happy about their upcoming wedding and rooting for their marital bliss.
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Well, I haven't been clear about that I suppose but when I said money, I of course also meant power as one comes with the other and vice versa. And that is a distinct possibility that one of their rivals or political enemies was on that plane. (Again, did you watch 'Hunted'? I might have asked before)
As for Takeda - again money = power... additionally I think they might have undermined a cause that was very important to him. Potentially something to do with someone or something that got killed/lost in that plane crash?
I just hope he won't retcon all this complex development which has made Revenge very unique just to stubbornly realise that original intention.
Oh you and me both because this is the worst. I mean even in my work which has nothing art-sy about it, when I write something and I start out with a theory I really like or am convinced of but in the end the data and facts tell me things have developed differently, I can't go and twist it all around to fit my orginial hypothesis that's just wrong.
she's had about enough of the Ryans threatening & meddling with their lives.
Her and me both. While the elder seems more reasonable, the younger really starts going on my nerves.
I'm very happy about their upcoming wedding and rooting for their marital bliss.
I'm with you on that.
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Those are all interesting possibilities, and I can't wait to find out about them on the show. Revenge is usually quick with revealing things, so the fact that the cause of the plane crash or Takeda's vendetta is still unknown must mean that it's something very important & is being saved for last.
I mean even in my work which has nothing art-sy about it, when I write something and I start out with a theory I really like or am convinced of but in the end the data and facts tell me things have developed differently, I can't go and twist it all around to fit my orginial hypothesis that's just wrong.
Great parallel right there. I feel like it would be cheating the reader (or in Revenge's case - the viewers) if you just twist the facts to make them conform to your hypothesis. Let's hope MK realises that before it's too late b/c Revenge has the potential for an unconventional and memorable ending here.
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