i don't even care if i know ya (in my head this song is about the rapture. YEAH.)
oh man, i was thinking last night and it was wonderful and beautiful and now i only remember one thing.
but anyway, two scriptures that have always terrified me are the scripture about broken branches and the scripture about salt losing its taste.
(edited out an ableist word.)
this post here, and this further post addresses the first. i like this guy, but the trouble with some of his solutions is that they put unbelievers in the position bad christians used to be. also it's interesting that john, who heard Jesus talk about the vine and remembered it well enough to include it in his gospel, had conditions for abiding that were not 'do all the things!' but 'confess Jesus as lord and saviour'.
idk, it's half a solution, and i can't think of...wait, obviously i can think of a solution. every tongue will eventually confess Jesus is lord. EVERY TONGUE. therefore God will abide in everyone, and everyone in God. that puts the part about every tongue confessing being to the glory of God in beautiful context. saving everyone, loving everyone, is to the glory of God. not being praised, not ruling with a rod of iron, but loving us, ALL of us, no matter how broken or messed-up or far away we are. whether we're prodigals out partying or sitting in the pig pen or on our way home, God's still waiting for us.
i felt a little awkward writing that sentence about saving everyone. but Jesus came to save the world, why should i feel awkward? the bible talks often enough about saving and reconciling everyone and everything. even christians who preach hell like they built the place generally admit God loves everyone. (unless they're Those Sort Of Calvinists. it's generally calvinists. the sort that like to emphasise God's hatred in spite of the fact that i'm pretty sure it's never mentioned in the new testament (wrath is, different issue))
also my inner atheist is screaming that it's patronising to say God loves everyone or that we need saving. my feelings on what Jesus saved us from are so complicated and confused right now that i really can't counter that.
(a lot of emergents believe that Jesus came to save us from the tyranny of sin, not God's wrath or justice against that sin, but i might say i believe that, but then i'll find myself in a position where i realise i don't totally believe that. also, as a giant coward, i'm sort of scared it doesn't count as real salvation, even though texts about salvation generally talk about believing in or on Jesus or confessing Him as lord, not believing He died for our sins.)
and as for the first part, i believe God exists and He loves everyone. you believe He doesn't, and so His feelings don't matter. hopefully we can co-exist.
as for the second verse, this is pretty interesting. salt can't lose its saltiness unless it basically ceases to exist.
another thing is, i always felt like saying (particularly in response to the version in mark, where it's phrased as a question), 'can't God make salt salty again? if He can do anything?' and given that the gentile woman managed to make Jesus change His mind, and i don't believe the bible has to be static and set in stone, with only one set of people's interpretations counting, ignoring the fact that we're influenced by society, and our various privileges and prejudices and accumulated attitudes can mean we're not reading the bible with a pure and untainted mind, and we're not necessarily getting what it meant at the time, or what it can mean for us now, i figure that maybe that question is valid. maybe it's okay to ask questions.
abraham changed God's mind. moses changed God's mind. i'm not sure i believe in the literalness of either of those stories - the abraham story is weird because it sort of implies God isn't omnipotent, which fuels my suspicion that it's a story meant to teach us that we're allowed to talk to God, we're allowed to make moral judgements, and God might well agree with us, that God actually listens to us and considers our views, that we can debate with him (also a pretty interesting verse in isaiah where God says He wants to debate with us about who's right w/r/t our sins).
the moses story is disturbing because it casts God in the role of someone who, rather than wanting to protect the israelites, wants to blot them out. so i'm not inclined to take that one seriously. the likelihood is it makes the point of the seriousness of idolatry, and the same points as the abraham story, that we can appeal to God for mercy, that His mind can be changed, which crops up again with daniel and...maybe some of the prophets? i'm guessing it also makes a point about moses' position with God, the connection of leaders with God, the importance of leaders, and the importance of those leaders loving the people they lead. probably other things i don't get because i'm not a bible scholar.
another story that only started terrifying me more recently is the story of the gardener and the unfruitful tree. and i think in that case, i was focussing on the wrong thing. the story isn't about how long we have before God cuts us down. it doesn't literally mean that after four years, our time is up, and so we have to GET WORKING! CONVERT SOME PEOPLE! TEACH SOME SUNDAY SCHOOL!
it's about mercy, and how God isn't willing to give up on us. how He'll work on us. it also may be about the role of Jesus as intercessor, but that casts God in the role of judge rather than loving Father. yes, the bible refers to God as judge (i think), but isn't it Jesus who's supposed to judge the world? it could also be about church planters, and again, the importance of leaders caring about their church.
(this theory comes to you from the fact that churches spent three years discipling new converts. THREE YEARS! part of me wants to go into a three-year discipleship course that exists only in my head, but the other part of me realises that if paul were actually my pastor i'd realise he scared the living crap out of the corinthians with that letter no-one can find and therefore i proooobably wouldn't like him so much. also, i hope they never find that letter.)
other verses that used to scare me: that verse in 2 peter about it being worse for them because they turned away from the holy way. refers specifically to false teachers! false teachers who were doing it for the money! and thus more likely to be about people like those awful televangelists who demand people pay them so their sick kid can get healed by the magical powers they receive along with your cheques, because that's the way Jesus did it! He always asked people to put some money in judas' bag before he put his hands on their icky sick bodies. OH WAIT THAT NEVER HAPPENED. like the time Jesus stood outside lazarus' funeral with a sign saying 'God hates israel'. sorry, this is fish-in-the-barrel stuff.
anyway, it's likely to mean them and not rob bell or darin hufford. neither of whom seem to be fading away like false teachers are supposed to. i know, i know, that dude who said he believed in universalism isn't doing so well now. Jesus also said people would be persecuted. and i know EVERYONE loves to pull that one out of their bag, from andrew wommack to the phelps family to deeply, deeply weird people on the internet, but it's still true.
i kind of wish sometimes that people didn't always pull the same tricks out of the bag. it's that and the my-opponents-are-going-to-hell thing. people who are super-into grace always think that people who are super-into wrath are heretics. for all their grace preaching, there seems to be no mercy for them. even universalists do this, which is so absurd and ironic i can't even.
okay, because i'm just as guilty of this as everyone else, people who believe in hell! GOD LOVES YOU! He thinks you're awesome and beautiful and delightful. i have no doubt He loves your concern for people you think are damned. i have no doubt He loves how seriously you take the bible and your heart for honouring Him. also, you're totally not going to Hell! you're going to heaven, and it's going to be awesome, and we're going to eat chocolate fudge cake and hang out with Jesus and ask Him deep philosophical questions and silly goofy questions and we're going to bask in the beauty of His love and humility and general awesomeness. and on judgement day, God's totally going to hug you and say 'welcome home, kid. i've been waiting for you forever.'
also since we're being different here: half my posts are written to impress hypothetical readers rather than done for the love of God. i mean, i start with the intention of working out some issues for myself, and then BAM, i'm in the be-my-friend-love-me-wrap-me-up stage. i - i should work on that. some of that last paragraph, even, but i like what i ended up with enough that i'm not going to change it. and the reason i want to go to heaven is to hang out with Jesus.
actually, further confessions time! i am legit terrified of hanging out with anyone else! mostly because everyone else i've ever respected as a christian teacher i have developed weird-ass crushes on! I DON'T KNOW IT'S A THING. so i probably couldn't meet their eyes. and if i haven't done that, i've had opinions and thoughts about them and probably considered writing fanfiction about them or overidentified with them. actually, i think it'd be cool to meet judas. but that's only because he's one of the very few people i don't think is way more awesome than me or going to judge me for being awful.
like, mary magdalene, peter, paul? ALL WAY TOO AWESOME AND CHRISTIAN AND BADASS. i can already see their judgey eyes. wait, christians totally aren't allowed to judge. maybe they'd be nice. it'd be like meeting a celebrity, man, i probably wouldn't even meet them until halfway through eternity and yeah, everyone's equal in heaven but come on, their names are on the walls (okay mary's isn't but she was a) amazing and b) if the whole Jesus' girlfriend thing is true, which i doubt, her terrifying factor goes up by about a million). my name ain't gonna be on any walls. like, honestly, i have no illusions about how rubbish of a christian i am (okay, some illusions. if i don't pretend i'm sort of a decent human being i'd just punch myself in the face all day for being the absolute worst). as long as we're all hanging out with Jesus in heaven, i'm cool.
(part of me is going, but what if we DON'T? what if dante's right (hate that book) and God is waaaay up and we never get to see Him? what if i'm super-awkward around Him because He's way cooler than me? ARGH)
one last terrifying verse: i sincerely doubt the verse about false prophets and how it'll be worse for them if they go back to their old ways is talking about either accidental false prophets who get tricked, or mentally ill people. i think God is logical and compassionate enough to understand the difference between a legitimate trickster trying to lead people away from Him and into sin and misery and despair and people who are either foolish, tricked or legitimately ill.
oh, and re: that feast parable, i think maybe focusing on the poor being invited second is focusing on the wrong thing. the point may have been that the rich (or the spiritually rich, like the pharisees*), were given their chance and failed to take it. that the pharisees* saw what was in front of them and found riches more compelling.
*no but http://kristadalton.com/villains-in-the-bible-why-the-pharisees-are-not-your-bad-guys/
ALSO WHOA THAT BIT ABOUT PEOPLE NEEDING REST SHOULD COME TO HIM MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE IF THE CAST DOWN TO THE DEPTHS THING IS A METAPHOR.
but anyway, two scriptures that have always terrified me are the scripture about broken branches and the scripture about salt losing its taste.
(edited out an ableist word.)
this post here, and this further post addresses the first. i like this guy, but the trouble with some of his solutions is that they put unbelievers in the position bad christians used to be. also it's interesting that john, who heard Jesus talk about the vine and remembered it well enough to include it in his gospel, had conditions for abiding that were not 'do all the things!' but 'confess Jesus as lord and saviour'.
idk, it's half a solution, and i can't think of...wait, obviously i can think of a solution. every tongue will eventually confess Jesus is lord. EVERY TONGUE. therefore God will abide in everyone, and everyone in God. that puts the part about every tongue confessing being to the glory of God in beautiful context. saving everyone, loving everyone, is to the glory of God. not being praised, not ruling with a rod of iron, but loving us, ALL of us, no matter how broken or messed-up or far away we are. whether we're prodigals out partying or sitting in the pig pen or on our way home, God's still waiting for us.
i felt a little awkward writing that sentence about saving everyone. but Jesus came to save the world, why should i feel awkward? the bible talks often enough about saving and reconciling everyone and everything. even christians who preach hell like they built the place generally admit God loves everyone. (unless they're Those Sort Of Calvinists. it's generally calvinists. the sort that like to emphasise God's hatred in spite of the fact that i'm pretty sure it's never mentioned in the new testament (wrath is, different issue))
also my inner atheist is screaming that it's patronising to say God loves everyone or that we need saving. my feelings on what Jesus saved us from are so complicated and confused right now that i really can't counter that.
(a lot of emergents believe that Jesus came to save us from the tyranny of sin, not God's wrath or justice against that sin, but i might say i believe that, but then i'll find myself in a position where i realise i don't totally believe that. also, as a giant coward, i'm sort of scared it doesn't count as real salvation, even though texts about salvation generally talk about believing in or on Jesus or confessing Him as lord, not believing He died for our sins.)
and as for the first part, i believe God exists and He loves everyone. you believe He doesn't, and so His feelings don't matter. hopefully we can co-exist.
as for the second verse, this is pretty interesting. salt can't lose its saltiness unless it basically ceases to exist.
another thing is, i always felt like saying (particularly in response to the version in mark, where it's phrased as a question), 'can't God make salt salty again? if He can do anything?' and given that the gentile woman managed to make Jesus change His mind, and i don't believe the bible has to be static and set in stone, with only one set of people's interpretations counting, ignoring the fact that we're influenced by society, and our various privileges and prejudices and accumulated attitudes can mean we're not reading the bible with a pure and untainted mind, and we're not necessarily getting what it meant at the time, or what it can mean for us now, i figure that maybe that question is valid. maybe it's okay to ask questions.
abraham changed God's mind. moses changed God's mind. i'm not sure i believe in the literalness of either of those stories - the abraham story is weird because it sort of implies God isn't omnipotent, which fuels my suspicion that it's a story meant to teach us that we're allowed to talk to God, we're allowed to make moral judgements, and God might well agree with us, that God actually listens to us and considers our views, that we can debate with him (also a pretty interesting verse in isaiah where God says He wants to debate with us about who's right w/r/t our sins).
the moses story is disturbing because it casts God in the role of someone who, rather than wanting to protect the israelites, wants to blot them out. so i'm not inclined to take that one seriously. the likelihood is it makes the point of the seriousness of idolatry, and the same points as the abraham story, that we can appeal to God for mercy, that His mind can be changed, which crops up again with daniel and...maybe some of the prophets? i'm guessing it also makes a point about moses' position with God, the connection of leaders with God, the importance of leaders, and the importance of those leaders loving the people they lead. probably other things i don't get because i'm not a bible scholar.
another story that only started terrifying me more recently is the story of the gardener and the unfruitful tree. and i think in that case, i was focussing on the wrong thing. the story isn't about how long we have before God cuts us down. it doesn't literally mean that after four years, our time is up, and so we have to GET WORKING! CONVERT SOME PEOPLE! TEACH SOME SUNDAY SCHOOL!
it's about mercy, and how God isn't willing to give up on us. how He'll work on us. it also may be about the role of Jesus as intercessor, but that casts God in the role of judge rather than loving Father. yes, the bible refers to God as judge (i think), but isn't it Jesus who's supposed to judge the world? it could also be about church planters, and again, the importance of leaders caring about their church.
(this theory comes to you from the fact that churches spent three years discipling new converts. THREE YEARS! part of me wants to go into a three-year discipleship course that exists only in my head, but the other part of me realises that if paul were actually my pastor i'd realise he scared the living crap out of the corinthians with that letter no-one can find and therefore i proooobably wouldn't like him so much. also, i hope they never find that letter.)
other verses that used to scare me: that verse in 2 peter about it being worse for them because they turned away from the holy way. refers specifically to false teachers! false teachers who were doing it for the money! and thus more likely to be about people like those awful televangelists who demand people pay them so their sick kid can get healed by the magical powers they receive along with your cheques, because that's the way Jesus did it! He always asked people to put some money in judas' bag before he put his hands on their icky sick bodies. OH WAIT THAT NEVER HAPPENED. like the time Jesus stood outside lazarus' funeral with a sign saying 'God hates israel'. sorry, this is fish-in-the-barrel stuff.
anyway, it's likely to mean them and not rob bell or darin hufford. neither of whom seem to be fading away like false teachers are supposed to. i know, i know, that dude who said he believed in universalism isn't doing so well now. Jesus also said people would be persecuted. and i know EVERYONE loves to pull that one out of their bag, from andrew wommack to the phelps family to deeply, deeply weird people on the internet, but it's still true.
i kind of wish sometimes that people didn't always pull the same tricks out of the bag. it's that and the my-opponents-are-going-to-hell thing. people who are super-into grace always think that people who are super-into wrath are heretics. for all their grace preaching, there seems to be no mercy for them. even universalists do this, which is so absurd and ironic i can't even.
okay, because i'm just as guilty of this as everyone else, people who believe in hell! GOD LOVES YOU! He thinks you're awesome and beautiful and delightful. i have no doubt He loves your concern for people you think are damned. i have no doubt He loves how seriously you take the bible and your heart for honouring Him. also, you're totally not going to Hell! you're going to heaven, and it's going to be awesome, and we're going to eat chocolate fudge cake and hang out with Jesus and ask Him deep philosophical questions and silly goofy questions and we're going to bask in the beauty of His love and humility and general awesomeness. and on judgement day, God's totally going to hug you and say 'welcome home, kid. i've been waiting for you forever.'
also since we're being different here: half my posts are written to impress hypothetical readers rather than done for the love of God. i mean, i start with the intention of working out some issues for myself, and then BAM, i'm in the be-my-friend-love-me-wrap-me-up stage. i - i should work on that. some of that last paragraph, even, but i like what i ended up with enough that i'm not going to change it. and the reason i want to go to heaven is to hang out with Jesus.
actually, further confessions time! i am legit terrified of hanging out with anyone else! mostly because everyone else i've ever respected as a christian teacher i have developed weird-ass crushes on! I DON'T KNOW IT'S A THING. so i probably couldn't meet their eyes. and if i haven't done that, i've had opinions and thoughts about them and probably considered writing fanfiction about them or overidentified with them. actually, i think it'd be cool to meet judas. but that's only because he's one of the very few people i don't think is way more awesome than me or going to judge me for being awful.
like, mary magdalene, peter, paul? ALL WAY TOO AWESOME AND CHRISTIAN AND BADASS. i can already see their judgey eyes. wait, christians totally aren't allowed to judge. maybe they'd be nice. it'd be like meeting a celebrity, man, i probably wouldn't even meet them until halfway through eternity and yeah, everyone's equal in heaven but come on, their names are on the walls (okay mary's isn't but she was a) amazing and b) if the whole Jesus' girlfriend thing is true, which i doubt, her terrifying factor goes up by about a million). my name ain't gonna be on any walls. like, honestly, i have no illusions about how rubbish of a christian i am (okay, some illusions. if i don't pretend i'm sort of a decent human being i'd just punch myself in the face all day for being the absolute worst). as long as we're all hanging out with Jesus in heaven, i'm cool.
(part of me is going, but what if we DON'T? what if dante's right (hate that book) and God is waaaay up and we never get to see Him? what if i'm super-awkward around Him because He's way cooler than me? ARGH)
one last terrifying verse: i sincerely doubt the verse about false prophets and how it'll be worse for them if they go back to their old ways is talking about either accidental false prophets who get tricked, or mentally ill people. i think God is logical and compassionate enough to understand the difference between a legitimate trickster trying to lead people away from Him and into sin and misery and despair and people who are either foolish, tricked or legitimately ill.
oh, and re: that feast parable, i think maybe focusing on the poor being invited second is focusing on the wrong thing. the point may have been that the rich (or the spiritually rich, like the pharisees*), were given their chance and failed to take it. that the pharisees* saw what was in front of them and found riches more compelling.
*no but http://kristadalton.com/villains-in-the-bible-why-the-pharisees-are-not-your-bad-guys/
ALSO WHOA THAT BIT ABOUT PEOPLE NEEDING REST SHOULD COME TO HIM MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE IF THE CAST DOWN TO THE DEPTHS THING IS A METAPHOR.