I cry cry cry, then I complain, come back for more, do it again.

[dragonladyflame]

Passive-aggressive! It's a major buzzword for our generation. No one want to be passive-aggressive, and it seems like everyone gets accused of it at some point

Comments

[agnoster]

I think you can avoid being passive-aggressive quite easily by expressing rationally exactly how you're feeling. The thing that marks passive-aggressive behaviour is, in my experience, that you try to hide or deny how you're feeling.

Take Person X. If he, upon seeing how this man is slobbering all over his wife, says something to the effect of, "Excuse me, and I'm sure your intent is not to be hurtful, but I have to say I'm rather bothered by the degree of affection you're showing for my wife. I'd appreciate it if, as a courtesy to me, you could refrain from this behaviour." At this point, Person X talking it over with his friends, say, wouldn't be passive-aggressive either, because he is communicating his discomfort directly and getting it out in the open - he's not talking about it behind anyone's back, in a sense, because the discussion is open.

In other words, I feel the solution, as in so many things, is open, honest, and respectful communication. Which really isn't as hard as people make it out to be.

There's a difference between trying to get what you want (which is the obvious and natural thing for a human to do) and achieving this by way of deceit and subterfuge. If I'm making my intentions clear (I don't want my wife to get hit on by other guys, say) and simply request voluntary co-operation then I don't think I'd be accused of being manipulative.

[dragonladyflame]

Fair enough, but what if the direct approach hasn't worked, and Person X doesn't want to bring up an old argument?

If, say, Person X has already made it clear to Guy Slobbering On Wife that he's unhappy with that, and Guy Slobbering On Wife has made it clear that he doesn't think he's doing anything wrong, how is Person X allowed to act?

I certainly agree with trying to be open and honest, and avoiding subterfuge. And I also agree that it's not as difficult as people make it out to be. I do think, however, that there are cases in which openness doesn't "work"; and in such cases, what happens? What if Person X doesn't leave his wife, but also hates it when she hits on other men, and his wife has -- in their open and honest discussions -- made it obvious that she has no intention of stopping? If it's an unresolved issue between them (as such things so often are), and he seems angry when she does it, is he being passive-aggressive?

[agnoster]

If GSOW refuses to stop, and Wife refuses to stop him, and X has made it perfectly clear how much it hurts him, the obvious choice would be to dump the bitch, because she's consciously and callously hurting him. But let's suppose X can't leave her. Well, he can either come to terms with it, or express his anger. I would at that point recommend letting it out by beating the crap out of both of them. But maybe that's just because I've been playing too much Mortal Kombat.

But seriously, he has no reason to suppress his feelings unless he decides that he just needs to suck it up. The problem, however, is no longer that he's being passive-aggressive, but rather that something is horribly, horribly wrong in his world and he can't fix it. And I really think passive-aggressiveness is simply not trying hard enough to solve the problem, really. There's a pretty clear solution: either his wife respects his feelings, or he makes her, or he gets out of the situation. Anything else is basically resigning himself to his fate, and at that point that is the greater failing than being passive-aggressive.

[dragonladyflame]

I dunno. I tend to think there could be a lot of situations in which there's no clear solution. I mean, say the wife has a point: maybe she isn't hitting on other people too much; does her husband really have the right to say she can't hit on other people even if she doesn't sleep with them?; and what if he's jumping at shadows, getting mad when she's doing less wrong than he thinks? What is the husband believes that sometimes he's a bit oversensitive about these issues, and is trying to get better? What if he and his wife agree that the failing is actually in himself, and he shouldn't be getting so angry -- but he's having trouble forcing himself to obey that dictum?

A relationship dynamic -- that of any relationship, not just spousal / significant other types -- doesn't always boil down to "either it works perfectly, or you leave". I'm wary of solutions that imply that it should.

[agnoster]

Well, I never said "either it works perfectly, or you leave" - but I do think that "either the other person tries not to consciously hurt you, or you leave" does apply. Abusive relationships... yeah, not so much a fan.

Ok, maybe he's being oversensitive. I personally don't get jealous, so I have no idea what sets other people off. I'm tempted to say he should just accept the warm embrace of cold, steely logic, but in all honesty, if he can't control his anger, than, again that is the problem. It's not about forcing yourself to obey a dictum, either - you have to decide your life is bettered by improving yourself. I'm not a specialist in the matter, but I do believe that there are courses on anger management.

And finally, finally, if the problem is unsolvable, and she's just chatting with a coworker when *BAM* X gets seized with jealousy and anger he just can't control, but he knows better than to blow up - well, then maybe trying keep it inside is a last resort, but he's not trying to deceive his wife or manipulate her (she's well aware of how he feels), he's just doing his best to behave. And I can't imagine anyone accusing him of being passive-aggressive in that case. They've talked about it, it's a known issue, he's doing his best, she is too.

But then, I don't believe in unsolvable problems.

[dragonladyflame]

Ha! I was just thinking about hunting down that comic link. Thank you for posting it for me!

I myself get very jealous sometimes (almost never without cause, in fairness -- e.g. that person I'm feeling so sensitive about really is hitting on my boyfriend / really has slept with him / whatever -- but that doesn't excuse me losing my temper and breaking into torrents of tears and suchlike). So I sympathize most with the husband in this equation, but I try really hard to sympathize with the wife. This may lead me to sound slightly schizoid when I discuss it.

As I said further below, I think part of the problem is that people often accuse others of being passive-aggressive more because they feel bad about how the other person feels than because that person is consciously doing anything in particular. And as I said a little bit further up but still below, it's hard to know how to deal with such situations -- yes, you should give people the benefit of the doubt ... but what if you're dealing with a Scarlett O'Hara, and the other person really is manipulating the hell out of you deliberately?