Again with the slash! It's like kicking a dead rancor.
Sethrenn (6:07:31 PM): [...] My question (well, a lot of ours, really) is why people believe that high levels of emotional intensity can only be present if it's sexual.
Sethrenn (6:08:17 PM): I mean, aren't there lots of things in any kind of human relationship that can cause lots of doubt, agony, worry, fear, etc, etc? Why is sexual tension considered the only thing capable of provoking those emotions, in so much writing?
magistrate (6:08:35 PM): Ah, yes. squeemu and I are getting into an interesting discussion about that in the comments. ...I think her definition of slash is much, much different than anyone else's. ...well, maybe not thebaconfat's or rionaleonhart's.
magistrate (6:09:22 PM): That's one of the issues that bugs the heck out of me, and that's almost guaranteed to elicit a backlash when it comes within ten feet of me--that sexual tension is some kind of unparalleled all-purpose intensifier.
Sethrenn (6:09:26 PM): Yeah? What does she define it as?
magistrate (6:10:07 PM): ["I think my definition of "slash" is quite a bit different than most peoples. When I talk about slashing two people, I don't necessarily mean that I want to see them having sex or even kissing. To me, slash is taking a more-than-normal interest in somebody, and feeling a bond with that person that's stronger and more important than bonds with other people. (Usually this extra-special bond is one where the people involved would like to live together, although not necessarily romantically.) This obviously excludes some things, and I'll be the first to say there are tons of exceptions, but that's generally what I mean. For example, Biggs and Wedge in FFVIII? I slash them, even though I don't think they'd ever really have a physical romance. Same with Langby and Bartholomew in Firewatch."]
Sethrenn (6:10:21 PM): Julian: It's a *cheap* intensifier. That's what it is. It's a cheap attempt to shortcut to the emotional intensity, and it rarely works.
Sethrenn (6:11:02 PM): ....hmm. That is kind of an odd definition. To me, using the word slash for that is very confusing because the majority of people (who are familiar with fanfiction terms, anyway) will think of something sexual or at least romantic when they hear that word.
magistrate (6:12:57 PM): I remember once in high school, in one of my English classes, we got into a discussion about provoking a reaction. Writing, like most things, can go for the cheap physical cues, or the intellectual ones. Sexual tension can be used for the latter, but is more often the former.
Yeah. I've used words in bizarre ways as well, so my soapbox is kinda rickety, but I generally *try* to define my terms at the outset if they differ from the general perception... because if you use a word for something very far off its common, accepted meaning, you're asking to be misinterpreted.
[...]
magistrate (6:17:05 PM): To be fair to Squeem, that use of slash is something I've seen around my FList--and occasionally exploited myself, usually in fic-writing memes when I'm given an X/Y prompt and write something on it that can be interpreted as slash if one so chooses, but doesn't deliver anything explicit. Still, it's not the slash I rail against; that's more the FFN definition.
[...]
Sethrenn (6:19:57 PM): I think... the assumptions that get to me, in no particular order, are that "just friendship" is "boring," that friendship is casual and easily discarded, that only sexual attraction can really cement a bond and make you willing to die for someone, that sharing, giving and openness only happen in a romantic relationship.
magistrate (6:21:02 PM): Eguh. Yeah, that's more or less what kills me, too. Especially since I write intensely character-driven and character-focused stories, and yet shy away from romance and sex in general.
Sethrenn (6:22:05 PM): There needs to be more of that. Nobody really seems to place a value on friendship any more without having it explode into some kind of huge repressed sexual attraction thing.
magistrate (6:22:39 PM): The one fic I do have planned in which romance has an active role involves people who have been (working) together for 7 years and already have very deep bonds--and acknowledging a romance is the equivalent of declaring a minor you've already taken the classes for. You get a bit of glitz and glimmer and the other distinctions are largely semantic.
Sethrenn (6:23:05 PM): And, even if two friends *do* end up hooking up, it doesn't have to be all... angst. In fact, it can be really boring. Telling the person how you feel is probably the scariest part.
Sethrenn (6:23:11 PM): ....that's very realistic, yes ;)
magistrate (6:24:13 PM): I think a lot of the angst that does come from friends hooking up is because people think that romance must inevitably be this Big Thing Which Changes Everything OMG.
Sethrenn (6:24:23 PM): ......and if people want to dig into the emotional nitty-gritty of romance, I wish they would mention embarassment and awkwardness more often. Because those so often *are* defining forces, much more so than passion, desire, coming to terms with repressed feelings for the person, etc.
magistrate (6:24:30 PM): When you have that *expectation*, well, duh, things will go all screwy.
Then we went on to discuss linguistics and the use of various words. Which was also fascinating, but very tangential to this subject.
Sethrenn (6:08:17 PM): I mean, aren't there lots of things in any kind of human relationship that can cause lots of doubt, agony, worry, fear, etc, etc? Why is sexual tension considered the only thing capable of provoking those emotions, in so much writing?
magistrate (6:08:35 PM): Ah, yes. squeemu and I are getting into an interesting discussion about that in the comments. ...I think her definition of slash is much, much different than anyone else's. ...well, maybe not thebaconfat's or rionaleonhart's.
magistrate (6:09:22 PM): That's one of the issues that bugs the heck out of me, and that's almost guaranteed to elicit a backlash when it comes within ten feet of me--that sexual tension is some kind of unparalleled all-purpose intensifier.
Sethrenn (6:09:26 PM): Yeah? What does she define it as?
magistrate (6:10:07 PM): ["I think my definition of "slash" is quite a bit different than most peoples. When I talk about slashing two people, I don't necessarily mean that I want to see them having sex or even kissing. To me, slash is taking a more-than-normal interest in somebody, and feeling a bond with that person that's stronger and more important than bonds with other people. (Usually this extra-special bond is one where the people involved would like to live together, although not necessarily romantically.) This obviously excludes some things, and I'll be the first to say there are tons of exceptions, but that's generally what I mean. For example, Biggs and Wedge in FFVIII? I slash them, even though I don't think they'd ever really have a physical romance. Same with Langby and Bartholomew in Firewatch."]
Sethrenn (6:10:21 PM): Julian: It's a *cheap* intensifier. That's what it is. It's a cheap attempt to shortcut to the emotional intensity, and it rarely works.
Sethrenn (6:11:02 PM): ....hmm. That is kind of an odd definition. To me, using the word slash for that is very confusing because the majority of people (who are familiar with fanfiction terms, anyway) will think of something sexual or at least romantic when they hear that word.
magistrate (6:12:57 PM): I remember once in high school, in one of my English classes, we got into a discussion about provoking a reaction. Writing, like most things, can go for the cheap physical cues, or the intellectual ones. Sexual tension can be used for the latter, but is more often the former.
Yeah. I've used words in bizarre ways as well, so my soapbox is kinda rickety, but I generally *try* to define my terms at the outset if they differ from the general perception... because if you use a word for something very far off its common, accepted meaning, you're asking to be misinterpreted.
[...]
magistrate (6:17:05 PM): To be fair to Squeem, that use of slash is something I've seen around my FList--and occasionally exploited myself, usually in fic-writing memes when I'm given an X/Y prompt and write something on it that can be interpreted as slash if one so chooses, but doesn't deliver anything explicit. Still, it's not the slash I rail against; that's more the FFN definition.
[...]
Sethrenn (6:19:57 PM): I think... the assumptions that get to me, in no particular order, are that "just friendship" is "boring," that friendship is casual and easily discarded, that only sexual attraction can really cement a bond and make you willing to die for someone, that sharing, giving and openness only happen in a romantic relationship.
magistrate (6:21:02 PM): Eguh. Yeah, that's more or less what kills me, too. Especially since I write intensely character-driven and character-focused stories, and yet shy away from romance and sex in general.
Sethrenn (6:22:05 PM): There needs to be more of that. Nobody really seems to place a value on friendship any more without having it explode into some kind of huge repressed sexual attraction thing.
magistrate (6:22:39 PM): The one fic I do have planned in which romance has an active role involves people who have been (working) together for 7 years and already have very deep bonds--and acknowledging a romance is the equivalent of declaring a minor you've already taken the classes for. You get a bit of glitz and glimmer and the other distinctions are largely semantic.
Sethrenn (6:23:05 PM): And, even if two friends *do* end up hooking up, it doesn't have to be all... angst. In fact, it can be really boring. Telling the person how you feel is probably the scariest part.
Sethrenn (6:23:11 PM): ....that's very realistic, yes ;)
magistrate (6:24:13 PM): I think a lot of the angst that does come from friends hooking up is because people think that romance must inevitably be this Big Thing Which Changes Everything OMG.
Sethrenn (6:24:23 PM): ......and if people want to dig into the emotional nitty-gritty of romance, I wish they would mention embarassment and awkwardness more often. Because those so often *are* defining forces, much more so than passion, desire, coming to terms with repressed feelings for the person, etc.
magistrate (6:24:30 PM): When you have that *expectation*, well, duh, things will go all screwy.
Then we went on to discuss linguistics and the use of various words. Which was also fascinating, but very tangential to this subject.