And there's thatveljaDecember 26 2015, 08:59:13 UTC
I don't particularly like to be the first to comment here but... well, looks like I'll have to be. Someone has to make a start I guess. I'll try to put my thoughts into words.
So, yeah... there's that. That's a wrap. We have happy endings all around and I like almost everything about them.
Edith and Bertie: Well done, you. I like that Edith told Bertie's mother the truth. Fact is, I like everything about those two. Bertie is such a nice guy and as much as I liked Michael Gregson, I like Bertie ten times more. He suits Edith.
Isobel and Lord Merton: I say it's about time that he told his stupid son and daughter-in-law where to stuff it.
Anna and Bates: Congrats to you. Actually, there's not much else I can think of to say to their happy ending. All is well. Oh, yes, there is one other thing. I'm really glad that Bates held out his hand to Thomas when he was leaving (however temporarily). I'm glad that they parted on good terms. I'd always wished for them to be friends. In time, I think, there's a chance for that.
Moseley: Yay for him! Being a proper teacher and all... really well done. And I'm sure that in time he'll get the clues Baxter keeps throwing at him. They will find their way to each other.
Mary and Henry: There's not much I can say about them. Congrats on the pregnancy I guess. Oh, and on having the car business with Tom. I like the idea. Other than that... I loved the scene where Henry put George on his shoulders. I'm sure that George will come to see Henry as his daddy, and rightly so.
Daisy and Andy and Mr Mason and Miss Patmore: Well, there's that. I don't really care for their happy ending. It doesen't matter to me one way or the other but... well, they have it, so there's that.
The one happy ending I really care about is Barrow's. I would have been furious, had they really let Thomas leave Downton for good. So, in a way I'm truly happy for him. Things turned out exactly the way I wanted. Thomas Barrow is to be the new butler at Downton. Hallelujah! Finally!
And yet... I can't help but be disappointed in the way they made it happen. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I truly dislike the fact that it took them all so long to see the totally obvious solution. That they had to make Carson have Parkinson's (I call it as I see it) to make them realize that he'd have to be replaced eventually. I feel like they kind of forced an idea that was perfectly logical from the start (that Barrow was to be Carson's successor). I mean, come on... how stupid do they think we are? It was perfectly obvious that Barrow was groomed to be the next butler ever since he became under-butler at the end of Season 3. And he had developed such a charming bond with little George... seriously, how could they ever let him go? So... all in all I think it was badly done. Especially the scene at the end, at the wedding reception, where things are finalized. When Thomas steps in to help pour champagne, when he offers his help and Carson grudgingly accepts it, when Robert finally voices what's to be done... the entire scene is so gloomy and serious... it's as if they're all so very reluctant to accept, as if they're all thinking: 'Oh well, it can't be helped, we'll have to take Barrow back... he's the only one who'd ever accept Carson overseeing things while not able to work himself... well, lets do it then, lets take Barrow back.'
I may be exaggerating things a bit but that's how that scene felt for me. They didn't even give Thomas time to truly be happy about it... the scene was cut off and we only see him start to realize that his dreams and hopes have just come true... Okay, I know that not everyone will feel this way because not everyone likes Thomas as much as I do. I would have loved to see more of him. In fact, I wouldn't turn down a two-hour-episode just about him... well, that's just me.
I could go on talking about what I loved about Thomas' scenes in this finale for hours but I won't bore you with my thoughts. I guess I'll simply start writing Thomas stories again :-)
Re: And there's thatzaletiDecember 26 2015, 10:47:22 UTC
Thomas as the new butler: aww, don't think of it that way. :) :)
When I saw that happening with Carson, I could see where they were going, even if in typical JF fashion it did feel like he just pulled it out of his... hat... to solve the problem. Which was that Carson is a strong character, and apart from being totally anti-progress, there was nothing wrong with him. He is SO devoted to Downton and the family that it's improbable that even Mrs Hughes' considerable charms (and/or powers of persuasion) would induce him to randomly decide to retire. Service is his life - his religion, almost. He's one of those ones where it's like, 'they'll have to carry him out'. So the only thing he can't fight is his health, and that's what JF used. It's got 'plot device' written in big red letters all over it, but it was the most logical choice. Add to that the fact that Carson had been such an arse to Barrow through this whole season, and I think they had no choice but to keep things serious during those scenes.
How improbable would it have been for them all to have suddenly clapped him on the back and said how delighted they were? As it was, we had people being unusually nice to Barrow all episode. Because he was leaving? Maybe. Because he'd tried to top himself? Also maybe. OR, it was JF spackling again, even though he must have known the long-term fans would see right through it. That said, I actually didn't read Robert as being too reluctant in the champagne scene - just practical. After all, he clearly doesn't want things to change too much, either: that's been another thread this season. So you've got two 'old goats' who are clinging to the status quo, even as life is wresting it from their grasp, and for better or worse, Barrow provided a convenient solution to that. Better, I would like to think, for Barrow's sake. :)
As for only starting to see him realise about his dreams & hopes - well, that's a fic writer's dream, isn't it? ;)
So that came out quite long, but I JUST finished watching it like 20min ago and I'm having ALL THE THOUGHTS.
Re: And there's thatveljaDecember 26 2015, 13:48:17 UTC
You're absolutely right, it would have been improbable for them to react any different than how they did in that scene. It called for seriousness and resignation (speaking from Robert's and Carson's POV). What jarred me is just that... I don't know, as a die-hard Thomas fan from the first moment it was hard for me not to cheer and clap him on the back so to speak. I was just so happy for him, and relieved that they'd gone that way, that I wanted for them to dwell on that topic for longer.
But of course, as a fic writer, this is a dream come true. Now I can explore and change things... there's already something of an idea forming in my head... like, the other servants' reaction to the news, or Mary's and little George's reaction...
Re: And there's thathaikittehDecember 26 2015, 18:55:45 UTC
I agree about the Carson/Thomas ending feeling heavy-handed and clumsy. Carson's too savvy to let it all go down like that. Especially once he realized he had this hereditary condition, he would have done everything to cover it up - I just can't believe that he'd keep trying to pour and then have outbursts like that in front of the Quality. He would have arranged to have someone else pour and maybe reached out himself to get Thomas to stay - then it could have been one of those things where he had to swallow his pride with Thomas, and Thomas could have been the better man and accepted.
But all that would require something that Fellowes absolutely cannot abide: character development. So instead we got what was on screen.
That said, I wept through the whole thing. I loved this show and even though the storytelling is consistently clumsy and repetitive, I was given so many happy endings that I ended up being happy myself.
Re: And there's thatprofshallownessDecember 30 2015, 09:51:02 UTC
I think others have thrashed out why the offer to Barrow scene played out the way it did. I would add that I thought it was touching that Carson and his hatred of change had to face his own inexorable mortality/fallibility.
Otherwise, I agree with a lot of what you said about the various happy endings. A lot of them left me saying 'Congratulations' and not much else!
So, yeah... there's that. That's a wrap. We have happy endings all around and I like almost everything about them.
Edith and Bertie: Well done, you. I like that Edith told Bertie's mother the truth. Fact is, I like everything about those two. Bertie is such a nice guy and as much as I liked Michael Gregson, I like Bertie ten times more. He suits Edith.
Isobel and Lord Merton: I say it's about time that he told his stupid son and daughter-in-law where to stuff it.
Anna and Bates: Congrats to you. Actually, there's not much else I can think of to say to their happy ending. All is well. Oh, yes, there is one other thing. I'm really glad that Bates held out his hand to Thomas when he was leaving (however temporarily). I'm glad that they parted on good terms. I'd always wished for them to be friends. In time, I think, there's a chance for that.
Moseley: Yay for him! Being a proper teacher and all... really well done. And I'm sure that in time he'll get the clues Baxter keeps throwing at him. They will find their way to each other.
Mary and Henry: There's not much I can say about them. Congrats on the pregnancy I guess. Oh, and on having the car business with Tom. I like the idea. Other than that... I loved the scene where Henry put George on his shoulders. I'm sure that George will come to see Henry as his daddy, and rightly so.
Daisy and Andy and Mr Mason and Miss Patmore: Well, there's that. I don't really care for their happy ending. It doesen't matter to me one way or the other but... well, they have it, so there's that.
The one happy ending I really care about is Barrow's. I would have been furious, had they really let Thomas leave Downton for good. So, in a way I'm truly happy for him. Things turned out exactly the way I wanted. Thomas Barrow is to be the new butler at Downton. Hallelujah! Finally!
And yet... I can't help but be disappointed in the way they made it happen. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I truly dislike the fact that it took them all so long to see the totally obvious solution. That they had to make Carson have Parkinson's (I call it as I see it) to make them realize that he'd have to be replaced eventually.
I feel like they kind of forced an idea that was perfectly logical from the start (that Barrow was to be Carson's successor). I mean, come on... how stupid do they think we are? It was perfectly obvious that Barrow was groomed to be the next butler ever since he became under-butler at the end of Season 3. And he had developed such a charming bond with little George... seriously, how could they ever let him go?
So... all in all I think it was badly done. Especially the scene at the end, at the wedding reception, where things are finalized. When Thomas steps in to help pour champagne, when he offers his help and Carson grudgingly accepts it, when Robert finally voices what's to be done... the entire scene is so gloomy and serious... it's as if they're all so very reluctant to accept, as if they're all thinking: 'Oh well, it can't be helped, we'll have to take Barrow back... he's the only one who'd ever accept Carson overseeing things while not able to work himself... well, lets do it then, lets take Barrow back.'
I may be exaggerating things a bit but that's how that scene felt for me. They didn't even give Thomas time to truly be happy about it... the scene was cut off and we only see him start to realize that his dreams and hopes have just come true...
Okay, I know that not everyone will feel this way because not everyone likes Thomas as much as I do. I would have loved to see more of him. In fact, I wouldn't turn down a two-hour-episode just about him... well, that's just me.
I could go on talking about what I loved about Thomas' scenes in this finale for hours but I won't bore you with my thoughts. I guess I'll simply start writing Thomas stories again :-)
Reply
When I saw that happening with Carson, I could see where they were going, even if in typical JF fashion it did feel like he just pulled it out of his... hat... to solve the problem. Which was that Carson is a strong character, and apart from being totally anti-progress, there was nothing wrong with him. He is SO devoted to Downton and the family that it's improbable that even Mrs Hughes' considerable charms (and/or powers of persuasion) would induce him to randomly decide to retire. Service is his life - his religion, almost. He's one of those ones where it's like, 'they'll have to carry him out'. So the only thing he can't fight is his health, and that's what JF used. It's got 'plot device' written in big red letters all over it, but it was the most logical choice. Add to that the fact that Carson had been such an arse to Barrow through this whole season, and I think they had no choice but to keep things serious during those scenes.
How improbable would it have been for them all to have suddenly clapped him on the back and said how delighted they were? As it was, we had people being unusually nice to Barrow all episode. Because he was leaving? Maybe. Because he'd tried to top himself? Also maybe. OR, it was JF spackling again, even though he must have known the long-term fans would see right through it. That said, I actually didn't read Robert as being too reluctant in the champagne scene - just practical. After all, he clearly doesn't want things to change too much, either: that's been another thread this season. So you've got two 'old goats' who are clinging to the status quo, even as life is wresting it from their grasp, and for better or worse, Barrow provided a convenient solution to that. Better, I would like to think, for Barrow's sake. :)
As for only starting to see him realise about his dreams & hopes - well, that's a fic writer's dream, isn't it? ;)
So that came out quite long, but I JUST finished watching it like 20min ago and I'm having ALL THE THOUGHTS.
Reply
What jarred me is just that... I don't know, as a die-hard Thomas fan from the first moment it was hard for me not to cheer and clap him on the back so to speak. I was just so happy for him, and relieved that they'd gone that way, that I wanted for them to dwell on that topic for longer.
But of course, as a fic writer, this is a dream come true. Now I can explore and change things... there's already something of an idea forming in my head... like, the other servants' reaction to the news, or Mary's and little George's reaction...
I'll see what I can come up with :-)
Reply
But all that would require something that Fellowes absolutely cannot abide: character development. So instead we got what was on screen.
That said, I wept through the whole thing. I loved this show and even though the storytelling is consistently clumsy and repetitive, I was given so many happy endings that I ended up being happy myself.
Reply
Otherwise, I agree with a lot of what you said about the various happy endings. A lot of them left me saying 'Congratulations' and not much else!
Reply
Leave a comment