SPN 5x06 meta/picspam: heroes, lies, and action figures

[dotfic]

Hey, all. Am still alive! Was too zonked Friday to gather my thoughts or go on LJ. Was still a bit zonked when I put this post together. I haven't had a chance to read my flist since early Thursday evening but I'll be catching up today (also napping and house cleaning and other thrilling adventures). Also need to watch the latest Flashforward,

Comments

[memphis86]

I LOVE THIS. I WANT TO PUT A RING ON IT

[dotfic]

*dances around with you on a football field*

Castiel doesn't have the best examples of free will and humans doing the right thing when given the choice to draw from. Certainly not from a child

Really good point. He's got one example, Sam, who ran with free will in the wrong direction and scored a goal for the other team by mistake, and on the other hand an untested child. The fact that Sam then went in a good direction with free will doesn't negate the initial screw up. It happened.

Castiel has emotional intelligence but no emotions. He has intellectual empathy but not real empathy.

Definitely, he has emotional intelligence and intellectual understanding of why this or that feels bad for people. But I think his issue is he DOES have emotions, and empathy, but no prior frame of reference for how to deal with them.

a lot of times Castiel is judged harshly because people are holding him to human standardsHe had one way of life and a way of being for thousands of years, and now he's learning a completely new one. He was frightened,

[ignipes]

Interesting

[dotfic]

Jesse is a loose cannon and could go off at any second. Sam got through to him, there's hope that Jesse will keep making the right decision.

But Sam's a good guy. Even a good guy makes mistakes. So Jesse is a wild card and a danger. Sam's also the proof that Jesse might keep making that right decision.

S1 Dean was learning how to think for himself and see the world in shades of gray - and he was pretty bad at it at first - and Castiel's doing the same thing, only he's got a much bigger handicap, what with the not being human and everything.Castiel comes from a completely different culture, way of thinking, way of doing, than Dean, and he did it for thousands of years. Hm. This "but he's not human" argument is complicated...I think we're not really using it as an excuse for his fail. It's a question of looking at character history and context

[ignipes]

I kind of love that in their own way, the Winchesters are as screwed up and faily as the brotherhood of the angelic host, it just manifests in a different way because, uh, yes. Human, not otherworldly cosmic beings.

I think right now, because they are trying so hard, Sam and Dean are considerably LESS screwed up than the angels. In S4, yes, they were definitely on angelic levels of brotherly fail. But I think since they broke up and got back together, and together decided to fight a war for humanity, the Winchesters are scared out of their minds and convinced they're going to lose but also more emotionally healthy than they have been in a long time.

The angels aren't as emotionless as we've been told they were by Anna. Castiel said emotions are gateways to doubt -- he never said he didn't have them. They're something the angels keep in tight check.Yes! Exactly! Angels have emotions all over the place. Uriel was filled with hate and loathing. Zachariah is filled with smug arrogance and deceit. Raphael is filled with grief and rage

[ancastar]

This is really wonderful. I love what you've done here. You've made so many excellent points I don't know that I can even comment individually on them all. However, I will mention I love that you caught the red behind Sam, blue behind Dean and a little of both for Cas (brilliant!).

I also adore how you've traced the emotional progression for the boys through the episodes. It's brought some points to light I hadn't considered.

I really like the idea of Sam reclaiming some of himself. I'm very sensitive to when the writers sometimes forget what the guys have been through (see my own meta on this ep). But the notion that what we saw of Sam in Season 4 was in some ways not the "true" Sam is comforting. The behavior we saw is part of him, surely. But it's not all he is.

[dotfic]

Thank you. Their character histories inform my thinking a lot -- whatever's happening, I can't seem to shut off "oh hey, that's a lot like where they were emotionally when this happened..." The show works callbacks and that kind of personal continuity. Nothing happens in a vacuum.

the notion that what we saw of Sam in Season 4 was in some ways not the "true" Sam is comforting.

I don't think he was intended to be. That all changed for him the moment Dean died and his soul went to hell -- it's been heartbreaking seeing this changed Sam, older, fiercer, and harsher. It's made the moments of sad puppy face all the more devasting. In S5 I definitely feel like that brittle shell is melting away and we're getting *Sam* again. Just...sadder, older, not as innocent.

[chiiyo86]

Oh, pretty, pretty thoughts (and pretty pictures!) This was not a happy episode, despite all the funny (and funny it was).

I was thrilled to see some Sam and Castiel's interaction. Want more of that Show, please!

Truth vs lie, and free will vs destiny are issues that keep coming both in the Show. What are your choices when you don't know the whole truth? But what if the truth is too much to bear? And we still don't have any clear answer.

[dotfic]

It really wasn't happy. It was funny and then...it's not.

They are finally getting to some Sam and Castiel interaction -- and doling it out in small intense bursts, I see. Show! Give it over! Sam and Castiel have been in the same room together plenty, but Dean seems to be their only link and most of the interaction is with Dean. Now we're getting it direct.

I hope this won't be like S4 where they had two intense moments and that's it. Sam and Castiel meeting -- the hand clasp. And then Sam yelling at Castiel at the end of On the Head of a Pin.

[minim_calibre]

Nice reading! This episode really felt like Sam and Dean regaining their own humanity and connection to the world in a lot of ways, with Castiel the contrasting piece. Further thoughts when not on my phone.

[dotfic]

Oh, nice point! Yeah, Sam especially seemed to reconnect with that, and then Dean saw lying to Jesse wasn't a good idea.

While Castiel backslid a little. Although I have this thought about how in backsliding, he was actually acting in a way that was *more* personal/emotional. Protecting the only family he's known -- the angels -- and desperately struggling to figure out a new way of doing things and lashing out and feeling confused and angry.