Keeping both of them in this universe and away from his past mistakes/his enemies keeps them safe. The Doctor has a lot of enemies who would use both Rose and TenII to hurt him and endanger the universe. The Doctor may not like it but, he knows what has to be done. I don't believe it was easy for him to walk away. But, depending on how angry and resentful Ten II isn't it more likely that the Doctor is protecting his more vulnerable friends in this Universe from TenII? And if Ten II resentment is towards Ten--and from what we see it is--isn't the first person Ten should want to protect from the Metacriss Ten's anger and resentment than Rose Tyler? Who knows better how to hurt the Doctor using Rose, than the Doctor? He's a Time Lord and looks at things as a Time Lord. I believe he looks at the possibilities/time lines (the what could be) and pushes Rose toward what he thinks is the best outcome. There is very little in classic Who canon to suggest that a Time Lord would think it is prudent or in the best interest of anyone to place an angry, vengeful, dangerous individual with Time Lord techincal and intellectual abilities with a vulnerabke human, but the Doctor has always been a rebel when it comes to his society and as you say manipulative. According to some canon, when the Master got out of line the Time Lords assigned a CIA agent disquised as a human to look after him. They assigned the Doctor and the Master as checks on each other, and in the show canon, they assigned Romana to both assist and keep the Doctor in line.
Honesty I don't see the basis for TenToo being considered 'angry'. One thing that I think comes up a lot in canon is that what Ten says and what he does/really thinks are often two different things. Same thing with describing him as vengeful - he pretty much did the same thing as Harriet Jones, who was vindicated (in the dialogue, at that!) by the events of TSE/JE as being totally spot on despite Ten's anger.
TenToo did nothing in JE that Ten himself didn't do multiple times during his tenure - at least one of those times (Doomsday) involved laughing gleefully with Rose as the Daleks were being vanquished/executed. I don't see that the universe would need any more protecting from TenToo than it would from Ten.
Re resentment, other than his annoyance at being called blood/anger/revenge-y, I didn't see anything to indicate that TenToo is unstable or resentful. If anything, it's Ten who gives TenToo a look that could kill, as Rose is summoning them both to the waters edge to finish the sentence.
TBH I think Ten's a bit of a hypocrite in saying that genociding the Daleks is a terrible dreadful thing that he'd never ever do. Except for all those times when he tried to do it. Um.
It is more what he said--not how he looked that made me suspect resentlment "You made me...." Oh, I very much agree with you that the Metacrisis seemed no more dangerous and angry than Ten himself.
However, the metacrisis Doctor is a new being, not the Doctor in a human body, and I think it would be a bit optimistic to think he will not need some help adjusting to who he is and who is not and sorry, I don't think that is Rose's role, and not from a human standpoint; I think the Time Lords, those who were decent would have consider Ten II almost a new species. I just remember Rose running after the TARDIS--that had to hurt.
We only disagree in the good intentions behind Ten's actions. I think it was less "what is best for Rose/Ten!!" and more the Doctor being exactly who he is and dealing out avoidance like it is wisdom.
However, I looked at the transcript and saw this: ROSE One by one. We looked up at the sky and they were just dying. Basically, we've been building this um... this travel machine, this... uh... Dimension Cannon, so I could... well, so I could...
THE DOCTOR (raises eyebrows) What?
ROSE (like it's obvious) So I could come back! (the Doctor beams and giggles) Shut up...! Anyway, suddenly, it started to work. And the dimensions started to collapse. (the Doctor's smile fades) Not just in our world - not just in yours - but the whole of reality, even the Void was dead. Something is... destroying everything. and wonder if we should give some credit to those fans who think --once TenII came into exsitence--the Doctor saw a way to ,(Well not as cruelly as Moffat put it), but deal with Rose. She is dangerous in that, I don't think she ever came to appreciate how delicate time travel and space can be; she sees the technology as an end to her means and we know from Father's day, the Doctor , like her stepf-father obviously, has little ability to say No to her. Rose is compassionate, she is loving, even generous, but as Billie says she also has a selfish streak which combined with powerful, almost unlimited technology is very dangerous.
So it could have been a matter of the Doctor really talking to TenII about Rose--and maybe TenII didn't think the Doctor was being fair.
Let me just say: I'm not a Moffat fan. Au contraire. And I'm probably one of the biggest Rose stans out there. However, I think Moffat gets a lot of flack over the 'clingy girlfriend' comment, which if you look at the video from whence it came, is pretty much him trolling poor -- and very shippy!!! -- Julie Garder XD So I'll come to his defence on that based on the merits.
The relevant part starts at ~3:35 and is actually pretty funny, ngl XD
However, the metacrisis Doctor is a new being, not the Doctor in a human body, and I think it would be a bit optimistic to think he will not need some help adjusting to who he is
Oh ITA!!! And fwiw, so does Davies - he mentioned in the JE commentary that he doesn't think that Ten/Rose would have worked out long-term because of the age difference, whereas with TenToo/Rose, he still had quite a bit to learn from her, ostensibly due at least in part to the species change and newfound mortality.
We only disagree in the good intentions behind Ten's actions
You're welcome! Yeah, I think that Moffat hasn't done himself many favors in interviews, and so he has probably squandered any benefit of the doubt he may have once gotten from fans =/
I think he's definitely trolling, but I feel like I'd definitely read things about how "Moffat said "clingy girlfriend" to prove that he hates Rose!!!" which is definitely not how it comes off here.
Not to say necessarily he doesn't hate Rose, but in the clip it seems that he's totally just trying to get a rise out of Julie, which I didn't realize before...
I think it's quite telling that Julie's next statement is about Moffat and relationships- what I think *is* clear from his comments concerning Rose and the Doctor is that he's terrible at understanding relationships. :P
He's a Time Lord and looks at things as a Time Lord. I believe he looks at the possibilities/time lines (the what could be) and pushes Rose toward what he thinks is the best outcome. There is very little in classic Who canon to suggest that a Time Lord would think it is prudent or in the best interest of anyone to place an angry, vengeful, dangerous individual with Time Lord techincal and intellectual abilities with a vulnerabke human, but the Doctor has always been a rebel when it comes to his society and as you say manipulative.
According to some canon, when the Master got out of line the Time Lords assigned a CIA agent disquised as a human to look after him. They assigned the Doctor and the Master as checks on each other, and in the show canon, they assigned Romana to both assist and keep the Doctor in line.
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TenToo did nothing in JE that Ten himself didn't do multiple times during his tenure - at least one of those times (Doomsday) involved laughing gleefully with Rose as the Daleks were being vanquished/executed. I don't see that the universe would need any more protecting from TenToo than it would from Ten.
Re resentment, other than his annoyance at being called blood/anger/revenge-y, I didn't see anything to indicate that TenToo is unstable or resentful. If anything, it's Ten who gives TenToo a look that could kill, as Rose is summoning them both to the waters edge to finish the sentence.
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Oh, I very much agree with you that the Metacrisis seemed no more dangerous and angry than Ten himself.
However, the metacrisis Doctor is a new being, not the Doctor in a human body, and I think it would be a bit optimistic to think he will not need some help adjusting to who he is and who is not and sorry, I don't think that is Rose's role, and not from a human standpoint; I think the Time Lords, those who were decent would have consider Ten II almost a new species. I just remember Rose running after the TARDIS--that had to hurt.
We only disagree in the good intentions behind Ten's actions. I think it was less "what is best for Rose/Ten!!" and more the Doctor being exactly who he is and dealing out avoidance like it is wisdom.
However, I looked at the transcript and saw this: ROSE
One by one. We looked up at the sky and they were just dying. Basically, we've been building this um... this travel machine, this... uh... Dimension Cannon, so I could... well, so I could...
THE DOCTOR
(raises eyebrows)
What?
ROSE
(like it's obvious)
So I could come back!
(the Doctor beams and giggles)
Shut up...! Anyway, suddenly, it started to work. And the dimensions started to collapse.
(the Doctor's smile fades)
Not just in our world - not just in yours - but the whole of reality, even the Void was dead. Something is... destroying everything. and wonder if we should give some credit to those fans who think --once TenII came into exsitence--the Doctor saw a way to ,(Well not as cruelly as Moffat put it), but deal with Rose. She is dangerous in that, I don't think she ever came to appreciate how delicate time travel and space can be; she sees the technology as an end to her means and we know from Father's day, the Doctor , like her stepf-father obviously, has little ability to say No to her. Rose is compassionate, she is loving, even generous, but as Billie says she also has a selfish streak which combined with powerful, almost unlimited technology is very dangerous.
So it could have been a matter of the Doctor really talking to TenII about Rose--and maybe TenII didn't think the Doctor was being fair.
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Let me just say: I'm not a Moffat fan. Au contraire. And I'm probably one of the biggest Rose stans out there. However, I think Moffat gets a lot of flack over the 'clingy girlfriend' comment, which if you look at the video from whence it came, is pretty much him trolling poor -- and very shippy!!! -- Julie Garder XD So I'll come to his defence on that based on the merits.
The relevant part starts at ~3:35 and is actually pretty funny, ngl XD
However, the metacrisis Doctor is a new being, not the Doctor in a human body, and I think it would be a bit optimistic to think he will not need some help adjusting to who he is
Oh ITA!!! And fwiw, so does Davies - he mentioned in the JE commentary that he doesn't think that Ten/Rose would have worked out long-term because of the age difference, whereas with TenToo/Rose, he still had quite a bit to learn from her, ostensibly due at least in part to the species change and newfound mortality.
We only disagree in the good intentions behind Ten's actions
Agreed here as well =)
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Context is so interesting- all the recaps of it I'd seen make it sound like he was deliberately being a jerk to the fans, not joking around.
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Not to say necessarily he doesn't hate Rose, but in the clip it seems that he's totally just trying to get a rise out of Julie, which I didn't realize before...
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