Oh, man, I love the Jack/Rose relationship and it makes me sad we didn't see more of it. I don't think Jack blames Rose at all, but I also think Jack suffers from the same "Rose is completely amazingwonderfullovely" affliction that the Doctor has. I feel at that point in time that although Jack had mostly come to terms with his immortality, he still had a lot of issues about it, and was angry/bitter with the Doctor for not helping him out with those issues and avoiding him. But IMO there is definitely a shift in attitude at the moment of truth in Utopia. If it has been anyone else responsible-including the Doctor- I think he would have kept more of that anger and bitterness, but I can't see him having any anger towards Rose whatsoever, especially since the Doctor made it clear it was an accident
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Re: rambling...fannishlissApril 10 2012, 04:51:23 UTC
I think you're right that if Rose brought up Jack she would not get a positive reaction from Ten. If no one has ficced on that, it seems like a moment that would be ripe for ficcage, especially from Ten's pov with all the changes regeneration would mean. One can kind of imagine the teeth on edge feeling of Ten peering at the newly anomalous Jack through the dying Nine's memories, and wondering if going back for Jack is a thing he could do..... or you know, maybe, tried to do and the Tardis just missed, as she so often does for whatever reason
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Re: rambling...fannishlissApril 10 2012, 23:31:51 UTC
If only that made any sense! :P
Nine himself admits that no Time Lord could do what Rose did. "Sucking out the magic" did kill him -- but there's no guarantee the Bad Wolf would have actually killed Rose, if it was able to keep her alive that long. The partnership between the human and the Tardis was what kept Rose alive ... I really think the Tardis would have been able to withdraw the energy back into herself if the Doctor hadn't kissed Rose. It was a panicky mistake on his part in my opinion. If you watch that scene you can see that he is terrified out of his wits throughout.
Re: rambling...redcirceApril 11 2012, 02:17:31 UTC
it seems like a moment that would be ripe for ficcage, Oh, totally. I've definitely seen a bunch of interesting fic about Rose finding out (and being furious), both in AU timelines and in Pete's World after JE, but not so much on those moments where Jack was discussed and the Doctor obviously lied about it, directly or by omission. For some reason I can see the Doctor just being kind of a jerk/angsty/curt with her when Jack was brought up (thus encouraging her not to bring him up again), but then again, we did see the Doctor bring Rose home when she was upset after Mickey left, so who knows, maybe they did have an emotional discussion about it. Which would be bad in a different way- a longer conversation would more likely involve direct lying.
One can kind of imagine the teeth on edge feeling of Ten peering at the newly anomalous Jack through the dying Nine's memories, and wondering if going back for Jack is a thing he could do What a lovely image! Is it weird that I imagine Nine being more conflicted about leaving Jack behind?
Re: rambling...fogsblueApril 11 2012, 14:49:09 UTC
I don't think Jack blames Rose at all, but I also think Jack suffers from the same "Rose is completely amazingwonderfullovely" affliction that the Doctor has. I feel at that point in time that although Jack had mostly come to terms with his immortality, he still had a lot of issues about it, and was angry/bitter with the Doctor for not helping him out with those issues and avoiding him. But IMO there is definitely a shift in attitude at the moment of truth in Utopia. If it has been anyone else responsible-including the Doctor- I think he would have kept more of that anger and bitterness, but I can't see him having any anger towards Rose whatsoever, especially since the Doctor made it clear it was an accident. This is pretty much my feelings on the matter. Even without putting Rose up on a pedestal, I think Jack knew well enough that Rose wouldn't have intended for him to be immortal and certainly never to cause him the pain associated with it. I've always felt that Jack understood that the first reason that the Doctor (Nine) invited
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Re: rambling...redcirceApril 12 2012, 02:18:49 UTC
I've always felt that Jack understood that the first reason that the Doctor (Nine) invited him onto the TARDIS was because Rose called him on leaving Jack to, you know, explode. Good point. I always forget that it really sorta seems like the Doctor's going to just let him explode, at least partly over a dislike apparently fueled by petty jealousy. Oh, Nine...
it would have been nice if she'd asked again at least once in the start of s2. IA. It seemed pretty weird and out of character for her not to. I usually just assume it was an offscreen. I'd love to hear a question about that posed to RTD.
Re: rambling...fogsblueApril 12 2012, 06:36:31 UTC
It seemed pretty weird and out of character for her not to. I usually just assume it was an offscreen. I'd love to hear a question about that posed to RTD.
Yeah, I've kinda put it in the offscreen category. It's the only thing that makes sense cause Rose isn't the type to forget a friend. But I would love to hear what RTD has to say about it...
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Nine himself admits that no Time Lord could do what Rose did. "Sucking out the magic" did kill him -- but there's no guarantee the Bad Wolf would have actually killed Rose, if it was able to keep her alive that long. The partnership between the human and the Tardis was what kept Rose alive ... I really think the Tardis would have been able to withdraw the energy back into herself if the Doctor hadn't kissed Rose. It was a panicky mistake on his part in my opinion. If you watch that scene you can see that he is terrified out of his wits throughout.
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Oh, totally. I've definitely seen a bunch of interesting fic about Rose finding out (and being furious), both in AU timelines and in Pete's World after JE, but not so much on those moments where Jack was discussed and the Doctor obviously lied about it, directly or by omission. For some reason I can see the Doctor just being kind of a jerk/angsty/curt with her when Jack was brought up (thus encouraging her not to bring him up again), but then again, we did see the Doctor bring Rose home when she was upset after Mickey left, so who knows, maybe they did have an emotional discussion about it. Which would be bad in a different way- a longer conversation would more likely involve direct lying.
One can kind of imagine the teeth on edge feeling of Ten peering at the newly anomalous Jack through the dying Nine's memories, and wondering if going back for Jack is a thing he could do
What a lovely image! Is it weird that I imagine Nine being more conflicted about leaving Jack behind?
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Good point. I always forget that it really sorta seems like the Doctor's going to just let him explode, at least partly over a dislike apparently fueled by petty jealousy. Oh, Nine...
it would have been nice if she'd asked again at least once in the start of s2.
IA. It seemed pretty weird and out of character for her not to. I usually just assume it was an offscreen. I'd love to hear a question about that posed to RTD.
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Yeah, I've kinda put it in the offscreen category. It's the only thing that makes sense cause Rose isn't the type to forget a friend. But I would love to hear what RTD has to say about it...
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