(Untitled)

[dobriydoktor]

Первый день после отпуска. Все мамашки резко вспомнили, что завтра же детям в школу, а там - вот неожиданность - требуют бумажку о пройденном профосмотре. А в больнице сидит "сука-врач" (цитата) и бумажку без осмотра узких специалистов и анализов не дает. Их было 54...

Comments

[tandem_bike]

you on the other hnd manage complicated cases most pediatricians don't even know where to start and bounce them off. my hat goes off to you........

we had a very similar case. about a year ago. same pathology. the mom was.. a uni professor. so she was not ignorant, she did all the homework and .. did not want to do surgery becasue she red about the complications. we had like a 4-hour family meeting. i was a cnsultant and mostly shut up and answered direct questions only form teh family or other specialists. it became clear that mom was engaging in magical thinking. despite her PhD and expertise in a hard science, she ws just not thinking but hoping. and she would IMMEDIATELY make an enemy out of anybody who told her otherwise.

bad cop-good cop strategy was adopted. very harsh language was used. as in - thi sis of course your child to kill, but you are effectively killing this child. pulmonary HTN of htis level will lead to at best a successful heart-lung transplant, which is a far riskier surgery than what is needed now and is 5 years overdue. your child will die soon if you don't act now. you can refuse tretament, we cannot force yoy ( true) - but in our eyes you will have mirdered your daughter through nondelivery of available surgical treatment of a treatable condition. etc, etc. she went to Mayos, they told her hte same but did not dillydally, basically told her she is a stupid shit. she came back pissed with htem and decided to do surgery at hopkins, which is more stupidity - but, she has a right. i don't know hte end.

[dobriydoktor]

нельзя, по-моему, позволять такие вещи решать только родителям. У них недостаточно знаний и слишком много предрассудков для принятия таких решений(.
Кстати, мы с медсестрой тоже постоянно играем в плохого-хорошего. Я - "суровая", как говорят родители, категоричная, вспыльчивая, она - терпеливая, контактная).

[tandem_bike]

that is a fundamental diference of ideologies...
i would not remove the girl from teh professor. i would tell her sh eis an idiot.. and not i but many people told her. but it remains her decision....

[dobriydoktor]

и как защитить ребенка от таких мамаш?

alas, NIKAK. you see, the parents have a fundamental right to be idiots.

[tandem_bike]

if we refuse them the right to be idiots, we will be taking a lot of their parental rights and giving them to hte state. and will be using the doctors' discretion alone. i am deeply against it.

in cases like yours, an ethics committee needs to meet ( when not at war :(((( and discuss and make a recommendatoin. if the ethics committee, 111-17 people of all wlks of life, very informed, decide that hte mom is being neglectful - then a judge is involved.

Re: alas, NIKAK. you see, the parents have a fundamental right to be idiots.

[dobriydoktor]

нет у нас таких комитетов(.

Re: alas, NIKAK. you see, the parents have a fundamental right to be idiots.

[vovse_ne]

Да родителям-то и хорошо бы не запрещать to be idiots, если б докторам не прилетало от них же - и за их решения идиотские - по голове... Родители ж не в вакууме существуют, а в социуме.

doctors need to be protected

[tandem_bike]

as our work is hard enough as is.

Re: doctors need to be protected

[hrusca]

as germany have shown, when doctor is too much protected, he can become a [censored for professional reasons], sorry. It must be somehow balanced - protection and control.

doctors should censor doctors

[tandem_bike]

not bureaucrats/admins.

Re: doctors should censor doctors

[hrusca]

не о бюрократах речь... речь о том, что некоторые считают себя пупом земли. И белая униформа от этого никак не защитит. Вот такая вот сказка.

у нас таких прибивают

[tandem_bike]

еще на уровне студентов.

а белое я не ношу, есть много доказательств что оно не нужно.

хорошо вам

[hrusca]

но в уличной одежде в постоперационную к грудничкам не ходите же? :)
основная проблема немецких больниц, знаете какая?

Re: хорошо вам

[tandem_bike]

к грудничкам я хожу очень редко, и там у них такие жолтые обязательные для всех кафтаны без которых в НИКУ не пускают.

Re: хорошо вам

[hrusca]

Ибо инструкции пишут кровью.

какой кровью?

[tandem_bike]

просто старшая медсестра увидит и напомнит. еще руки там надо мыть по входе. и родителям и врачам - которые там в скрабах. а я консултьант, я жолтенький гаун надеваю.