SOOO OLD, but needed to post it....
Pj gave me permission to reproduce this. He got caught when I was in a highly philosophical mood. Believe it or not, this convo is a year old. I used part of it in an essay. XD Anywho, comment, thoughts whatever welcome. :)
A brief conversation between my friend, PJ, and I:
Me: I have a theory...about why people are not happy...and make choices that keep them unhappy yet they try to fool themselves into thinking that they are happy with these choices
PJ: k
Me: basically...there are what is known as societal norms and standard. people abide by them...regardless of it making them happy or not...as to not be outcast from society in anyway shape or form...thus increasing their unhappy state people often prefer to reside in a realm of illusion...to avoid their true wants and desires. for sake of societal approval. for some people...they never figure out where this clash comes into play...so they always feel a sense of lonliness...as if they are misunderstood. those that do realize it..are often to frightened to make the necessary changes...and reside in despair or...they make the changes but cant take the damning stares by those surrounding them then there are the select few...that are able to recognize this...and take it in stride...and find true peace and happiness.
PJ: so.. youre saying everyone conforms to be 'normal' but they shoudlnt? o_o
Me: no that is not what i am saying i am saying..the current state of "normal" is unrealistic...thus causing despair
PJ: ahh ok ok gotcha ;D
Me: for example we strive for money...why? cause money...is necessary but ...just because a job will make you rich...if you despise the job...does that make you happy? so we do these things..that society dictates..cause they seem right...when infact it just increases despair. we also deny pieces of our core selves to fit into society. lets put it this way. my mom said to me...when i was 14... melissa you will know you are ready to have sex...when you can tell me...that you are having sex....meaning...i am adult enough to not feel like i have to hide what i am doing. our society has created a structure of secrecy....we hide core aspects of what we do..for fear of seeming abnormal...creating more despair.
PJ: yep
Me: that is not to say...everything is for everyone to know it is just saying that too much of the self remains hidden
PJ: i dunno ..that in a way we change and cause problems for ourselves cuz of ideals we were taught instead of our pure desires?
Me: and i am not saying that giving into pure desire is the answer...it is about a balance between apollo and dionysis. well really they shouldnt be seperate categories at all the key is...we surpress our dionysian side.
PJ: ooh gotcha
Me: the other problem is some dont supress it...and let it out too fully. creating MORE problems the new problem is what i call categorizing
PJ: =/ mmhmm
ME: we categorize everything...even in simple terms of ethics..this is RIGHT and this is WRONG...we set ourselves up as judges but who are we to judge why is he a better judge than she...etc we need it to create order. however...is there the possiblity that order could exist without the rules and regulations? most probably not beucase people are not intelligent enough (as a whole...meaning masses) to deal with a society without laws people are always looking for shortcuts...why...because they are not satisfied with what they are doing...the interesting thing is...as our society creates shortcuts...(easier way of doing things) we get bored. all you hear today...is i am so bored.
PJ: yeah'
Me: we are losing the ability to think and process for ourselves we are SOOO easily manipulated these days it is easier to be TOLD what to do..than to make a decision for the self
PJ: ahh...k
Me: u dont agree with that part? and i quote nietzsche (my secret dead lover, LOL, its a joke)
ME: The European disguises himself with morality because he has become a sick, sickly, crippled animal that has good reasons for being "tame"; for he is almost an abortion, scarce half made up, weak, awkward.
It is not the ferocity of the beast of prey that requires a moral disguise but the herd animal with its profound mediocrity, timidity, and boredom with itself. With morality the European dresses up - let us confess it! - to look nobler, more important, more respectable, "divine" - (Nietzsche, 295-296)
Me: here is part of a paper I wrote awhile ago……The idea of morals as a disguise suggests that one has an idea of personal morality yet disregards this notion for the "accepted" morality of one's society. Friedrich Nietzsche takes the question of morality and calls it a mask, a facade, which we buy into for sake of appearance. When one merely accepts morals for sake of appearance a sense of moral complacency arises in a community. Moral complacency is dangerous because it allows for the "herd instinct" and it allows for one to be easily controlled and manipulated.
That is all folks. May seem unfinished, but there is a 10 pg paper that goes with that XD Thanks Krissy for the lj cut code again. :)
A brief conversation between my friend, PJ, and I:
Me: I have a theory...about why people are not happy...and make choices that keep them unhappy yet they try to fool themselves into thinking that they are happy with these choices
PJ: k
Me: basically...there are what is known as societal norms and standard. people abide by them...regardless of it making them happy or not...as to not be outcast from society in anyway shape or form...thus increasing their unhappy state people often prefer to reside in a realm of illusion...to avoid their true wants and desires. for sake of societal approval. for some people...they never figure out where this clash comes into play...so they always feel a sense of lonliness...as if they are misunderstood. those that do realize it..are often to frightened to make the necessary changes...and reside in despair or...they make the changes but cant take the damning stares by those surrounding them then there are the select few...that are able to recognize this...and take it in stride...and find true peace and happiness.
PJ: so.. youre saying everyone conforms to be 'normal' but they shoudlnt? o_o
Me: no that is not what i am saying i am saying..the current state of "normal" is unrealistic...thus causing despair
PJ: ahh ok ok gotcha ;D
Me: for example we strive for money...why? cause money...is necessary but ...just because a job will make you rich...if you despise the job...does that make you happy? so we do these things..that society dictates..cause they seem right...when infact it just increases despair. we also deny pieces of our core selves to fit into society. lets put it this way. my mom said to me...when i was 14... melissa you will know you are ready to have sex...when you can tell me...that you are having sex....meaning...i am adult enough to not feel like i have to hide what i am doing. our society has created a structure of secrecy....we hide core aspects of what we do..for fear of seeming abnormal...creating more despair.
PJ: yep
Me: that is not to say...everything is for everyone to know it is just saying that too much of the self remains hidden
PJ: i dunno ..that in a way we change and cause problems for ourselves cuz of ideals we were taught instead of our pure desires?
Me: and i am not saying that giving into pure desire is the answer...it is about a balance between apollo and dionysis. well really they shouldnt be seperate categories at all the key is...we surpress our dionysian side.
PJ: ooh gotcha
Me: the other problem is some dont supress it...and let it out too fully. creating MORE problems the new problem is what i call categorizing
PJ: =/ mmhmm
ME: we categorize everything...even in simple terms of ethics..this is RIGHT and this is WRONG...we set ourselves up as judges but who are we to judge why is he a better judge than she...etc we need it to create order. however...is there the possiblity that order could exist without the rules and regulations? most probably not beucase people are not intelligent enough (as a whole...meaning masses) to deal with a society without laws people are always looking for shortcuts...why...because they are not satisfied with what they are doing...the interesting thing is...as our society creates shortcuts...(easier way of doing things) we get bored. all you hear today...is i am so bored.
PJ: yeah'
Me: we are losing the ability to think and process for ourselves we are SOOO easily manipulated these days it is easier to be TOLD what to do..than to make a decision for the self
PJ: ahh...k
Me: u dont agree with that part? and i quote nietzsche (my secret dead lover, LOL, its a joke)
ME: The European disguises himself with morality because he has become a sick, sickly, crippled animal that has good reasons for being "tame"; for he is almost an abortion, scarce half made up, weak, awkward.
It is not the ferocity of the beast of prey that requires a moral disguise but the herd animal with its profound mediocrity, timidity, and boredom with itself. With morality the European dresses up - let us confess it! - to look nobler, more important, more respectable, "divine" - (Nietzsche, 295-296)
Me: here is part of a paper I wrote awhile ago……The idea of morals as a disguise suggests that one has an idea of personal morality yet disregards this notion for the "accepted" morality of one's society. Friedrich Nietzsche takes the question of morality and calls it a mask, a facade, which we buy into for sake of appearance. When one merely accepts morals for sake of appearance a sense of moral complacency arises in a community. Moral complacency is dangerous because it allows for the "herd instinct" and it allows for one to be easily controlled and manipulated.
That is all folks. May seem unfinished, but there is a 10 pg paper that goes with that XD Thanks Krissy for the lj cut code again. :)