Roleplaying Game Systems and Attributes
Of the tabletop games I have played - D&D has 6, WoD has 9, Shadowrun has 9 too, Dark Heresy has 9 again, Cortex has 6 and FATE doesn't really have any definable, but still has them if you chose to make it part of your character.
Long ago, a friend of mine said something that effected my thinking along the lines of, "Roleplaying games need ( Read more... )
Long ago, a friend of mine said something that effected my thinking along the lines of, "Roleplaying games need ( Read more... )
It depends on what you want your game to do, and how complex you want to make it. Some games reduce it all down to one or two traits and they're not even about Strength or intelligence. I'm going to work off memory here, so no slaying me for actual factual inaccuracies. It also depends on where the game sits in the Gamist-Narrativist-Simulationist (GNS) spectrum, if you're prepared to subscribe to The Forge's view of the world of games and game design.
Over the Edge, a strongly narrative type of game, has IIRC maybe two stats, they are freeform in that there's no list that you pick from, and they simply describe your character in either a physical way (e.g. "Urbane Beauty", or "Awesomely ripped") or skilled way (e.g. "Clever with hands", or "World-class mechanic"). When you encounter situations in the game where these stats come into play, you get to use them. I can't recall the name of the system, but there is one out there that simply employed stats of 'Mind', 'Body' and 'Soul', IIRC. I think Robin Laws latest system of mechanics (Gumshoe) has a limited number of stats that relate to the character themselves and focuses more on the skills that are used to conduct the investigative style of games that the system best focuses on.
Highly mechanistic (usually Simulationist) games, I guess like Advance Phoenix Command, with a heavy war-game origin/geneology, have perhaps dozens of stats and skills to work off. Most "modern" games with a contemporary setting might have a Firearms skill, say, vs. skills with Pistols, Rifles, Submachine guns, Machine Guns, etc. across the whole gamut of 'slugthrowers' there are out there in the world. Likewise they'll have stats for, e.g. a basic strength and then derived stats for lifting capacity, or climbing capability, or you name it.
John Wick's latest outings (assuming my interpolation from Blood & Honor is not inaccurate) all use stats not to determine how well your character can do something at all. Instead all the traits that describe your character are used to determine a) who wins the dice-off to achieve narrative control and b) how much control you have when you achieve it (i.e. the number of new elements in the game scenario you can add). Once control is achieved it is a completely arbitrary decision on the part of the active 'narrator' as to whether a character succeeds or fails at their current challenge, and the dice have nothing to do with the chance of success or failure.
So, the broad variety of the systems that exist and the degree of complexity that they present from their systems suggest that there isn't really a right answer. The answer depends on the question...
Don't know if that helps because all I've done is come up with a bunch of different questions instead of answering the original one :-)
anyway cheers,
ODie... (daman_asha)
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Yes, I am designing a system of my own. I have technically been doing so for 16 years - but recently two things got me going again - one positive and one very depressing and not so fun.
What do I want to do I probably cannot express in the short paragraphs I have here - once I get some things in my head sorted, I'll share more (and that's not because I am hush-hush, but because I am a bit of a perfectionist)
How complex ? Slightly less complex that the NEW WoD storyteller system in terms of mathematics and numbers. Probably going to be a bit complex in terms of vocabulary and grammar use of the english language - but that's all part of the gimmick I am sort of excited about.
I have read the GNS theory and some of the other essays around it, but a while ago. I largely agree with it - but the current inspiration, if I am able to do it well may sit somewhere between Gamer a Narrativist.
Over the Edge sounds very much like Fate (used in Dresden Files and Spirit of the Century). While I like that sort of thing, and like those games, it's not entirely what I am aiming for here - not that I have not been inspired by them tho. Mind Body Soul is Tri-Stat - not played, but read a bit about it. Have played a Gumshoe version of Cthulu - and it was a lot of fun - but the spend system is not what I am after either.
I don't want heaps of stats - in fact I am trying to steer clear of numbers, modifiers, and that sort of thing a lot really. In that regard I don't think what I am writing will be very simulationist at all.
Narrative Control and the degree thereof is something I am definitely employing - although in a slightly different way (I believe), and to the point were establishing the initial control is very simple, but the degrees add a bit of complexity.
To your questions:
"How fine-grained a degree of simulation of the world, whatever your setting, do you want to achieve"
If you are asking about a simulation of real word physics, psychology and interaction - then the answer is not much at all, although by happenstance my psychology is based on a real world theory (Big 5, modified).
"How intrusive do you want your rule-set to be on the narrative flow (more stats and more complexity leads to more stilted narratives, in general)?"
Difficult to answer. I would like the rule set to create the narrative flow. I want words to be key, but I want how that narrative flow is to be determined by rules. At the same time I do not want dice rolls, numbers and lawyering to rule the game.
"Can your aims be achieved by a system that has no dice at all?"
Possibly - and a version I have thought of could do just that. But the same problems with traits and 'stats' (for lack of a better word) are present.
"should the dice do nothing except determine who goes next in the turn-taking of the 'round the table storytelling that your group is engaged in?"
If you mean in regard of order, initiative - that sort of thing. No. If you mean in terms of Narrative control, yes - that is where I am going. Where I am having creativity issues is in regard to what sort of character traits there should be, and how they can be constructed to be narrative more that numerical.
Of course what you have written helps! But at the same time, I know what I have replied doesn't help clarify things - probably because I a not revealing what I am actually thinking of - at least not just yet.
Maybe that's something for a phonecall, or private post. We'll see how I go anyway.
Thanks for the input.
If you have more thoughts - they are much appreciated.
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