Roleplaying Game Systems and Attributes

[disableanonymos]

Of the tabletop games I have played - D&D has 6, WoD has 9, Shadowrun has 9 too, Dark Heresy has 9 again, Cortex has 6 and FATE doesn't really have any definable, but still has them if you chose to make it part of your character.

Long ago, a friend of mine said something that effected my thinking along the lines of, "Roleplaying games need

Comments

Re: required attributes?

[disableanonymos]

The LARP point of view is fine - and I have been an advocate for that point of view. I suppose I am more asking about Tabletop gaming than LARP, but it didn't occur to me since so much of my recent LARP is stat driven. Where that view falls down is where you have to simulate physical things without doing them as it could harm yourself or others - and stats are needed for that. Then the problem becomes, if stats are needed for that, why not make them universal and for everything.

I have always hated when GMs give you a social situation and say "roleplay it" when the person has no social skills. At the same time I hate when a system allows people to 'dice whip' people into submission with no effort but the flick of a handful of dice. Have you any suggestions how you would marry those into a happy medium - especially for systems existing with one or the other extreme?

My current thought is to make a system where the dice aspect of it less important (still there, but less) and description is more important. I can't go into it too much here (mainly because of space), but this is also effecting the development of how I am representing any attribute in the system.

Of course I asked the question based on what I am trying to put together, but asked it generally about roleplaying games systems in general because I am interested in that too - so very good commentary all round.

Thank you.

Re: required attributes?

[kage_73]

From a totally TT perspective I agree... it can get annoying if a GM just says 'roleplay it' especially if you've stat'ed your character to have different strengths and weaknesses to your own actual ones, and that's regardless of the situation be it social, political, negotiations, or even combat (minimising dice rolls to just the to hit and damage dealing). I guess that holds true for LARP also but less so because the majority of player I've encountered tend to roleplay through encounters more than at a TT game.

I believe it's because as a hobby it's still pulling its way away from the origins of a wargame, so to be "role"play and do it purely you really need to remove the dice all together. Having said that though it's not practical unless you replace it with something.

Have you had a look at Nobilis as a diceless game? I found it enlightening to see how description can be used in place of the dice. I've not actually played the game itself but have been amazed by the detail of the game.

Perhaps a balance of description (a la the old Mage paradox system, if it's believable to the majority of the players (GM included) then it doesn't attract paradox, if not then it does leading to backlash) with dice rolls for the most important stuff, hitting things, damaging things, and how much damage is taken (if you have any kind of saving throws or soaking) and of course the wound track.

Anyways I'll throw your question at ODie also because I think he'd have some nifty ideas on the subject also :-)

Cheers
Em

Re: required attributes?

[disableanonymos]

Dice are like gamer crack, and games are the addicts alley with the GM as the dealer - if there are dice, gamers will use any excuse to use them, games are where they come to use them in an environment of addicts that vindicate and make their use okay - the most popular games tend to be those who use all the different types of dice, or at least have lots of dice - and for GMs, dice make their job easier, mean they have to think less to get the pay-off, but really draw them into a web where they can't help but give players the dice.

I have heard of Nobilis, but not seen or played it. I am interested in diceless games - but have not done much research into them as I, like my statement above, am hooked on dice. I don't mind that addiction, and I don't mind it in others - but I am interested in transforming the use - and this is part of what begat the question.

I have some pretty interesting ideas - and they are almost fully formed - there are just a few kinks - which I may have to ask your feedback for in another post.

Thanks for the input, it's really interesting reading and pondering so far.