As if I needed more reasons to hate RTD...
HERE, at AfterElton.com, we have Russell T Davies talking about Children of Earth and why he decided to do the things he did.
After the cut, you have my angry response to his answers.
((I'm sorry, I know LJ is full of RTD hate already, but I couldn't let this one go.))
Warning: This is mostly a rant, so don't expect a well-thought out post.
I've no idea when he did that interview, but I've just found it and I read it because I really wanted an explanation.
Of course I knew that no matter what it would be, I'd still be mad at Russell T Davies for killing Ianto and - well, for the whole of episode 5, but I thought I'd be a little less angry if he explained things. Well... I'm not.
"The problem is, if someone hadn’t died you couldn’t have a threat that great and have them seem untouched by it."
If SOMEONE hadn't died?!
What about Frobisher? What about Frobisher's wife? What about their TWO children? What about Steven? What about Clem? What about Rupesh?
They don't count as SOMEONE?! I'm sorry, but if you feel that your audience won't be emotionally affected by a story in which SEVEN characters die, then you're a lousy writer.
And wasn't that the very same reason why he killed off both Owen and Tosh not FIVE EPISODES EARLIER???
What does that mean anyway? Now, with every new enemy on the show, we'll need to have one major character written off so that it feels like they're in real danger? WHAT THE HELL, RTD?!?!?!?!
"And it had to have the greatest effect on Captain Jack because I always sort of knew that Jack would kill his grandchild in the last episode … and in order to do that you got to have a Captain Jack who is badly, badly damaged. (...) He’s the one that gave away 12 children back in 1965 to these alien gods. So actually he paid the price to damage him, to make this a tale of retribution and perhaps redemption all come around to him, you have to kill his lover."
Right, because being forced to kill his grandson and thus losing any and all hope for a relationship with his own daughter would do nothing for him? It just wouldn't be retribution enough to have someone from his own family killed and his own daughter wanting him dead?
Besides, WHY did Jack have to kill his grandson in the first place? I'm missing the point here. He had just told the 456 that "an injury to one is an injury to all". HE SAID IT! And yet he went along and did it himself. WTF?!
And also, Jack would be feeling infinitely guilty if he'd killed ANY child. He was already kicking himself on the head because of the 12 kids he handed over in 1965, any other child being killed because of him would have that effect on him.
And that reminds me... I was just watching Day 4 again... What sort of stupid plan was that of Torchwood's? They get the attention of the politicians, get the whole place to themselves so they can stop the madness and confront the 456 and at the first response of the 456 they do what? NOTHING! They didn't do ANYTHING AT ALL! They tried shooting the glass to no effect and that's it! They just stood there and died.
If they were going to die anyway, why not OPEN THE DAMN DOOR first and then shoot them? And if you're going to shoot them anyway, why not get into a proper hazmat suit before? And if you're going to kill them anyway, how come none of the nations of the world thought about evacuating Thames House and then sending a HUGE FRELLING BOMB there?!?!?!?!?!?!
"When someone dies you lose all that potential. You grieve over everything they could have been. Everything you hoped for them. Everything they might have achieved with their lives, everyone they could have loved. Every job they could have had. Every joy they could have had. It’s gone."
... And that's a good thing, is it?
"I think you’re being polite and part of what you're saying is that it wasn’t a properly sexualized relationship … that we didn’t show enough details … I think that’s absolute nonsense."
Who said that?
The editor noted that he didn't mean anything like that. We're not complaining because we didn't get a properly sexualized relationship! Where did RTD get that idea?!
"It’s funny because I know a lot of those people complain in the same breath that you get to see Gwen and Rhys being happy. But equally in the same breath, those same people say they don’t like Gwen and Rhys. So clearly they don’t like the happy characters. So why do they even want the gay people to be the happy characters? I don’t know because the happy characters aren’t the ones they are latching on to."
This is a load of crap, I'm sorry. People want the characters they love to be happy and to survive.
Ok: First, not that many people don't like Gwen and Rhys. And lets asume he's right and people don't like them together. Well, Gwen/Rhys, the couple RTD thinks people don't like, and you have Jack/Ianto, the couple that HE KNOWS most Torchwood fans love. So what does do? He ends the relationship people love and keep the ones that people don't like... YEEEEEAH that made total sense.
Second, so I'm to think that Ianto and Jack didn't get a happy ending because people would lose interest in them if it happened? WHAAAAA?!?!?!
Third, if your audience likes f-ed up relationships over happy ones, there's something VERY wrong with the way you're writing happy relationships.
Happy relationships CAN be interesting. Take Jim/Pam or Lily/Marshall, for instance. Or even Gwen and Rhys!!! They're great together.
"I think the details of that [Jack and Ianto] relationship were really beautiful and were really lovely and quite unique with one of them being a formerly straight man, the other being an immortal bisexual, the delicacy of the dance between them. I thought it was beautifully written and beautifully performed.
And if you are grieving the lack of more of it - that’s because it was working so well."
If it was working so well, why take that away? Just WHY???
As a showrunner, why does RTD feel the need to destroy something that was working???
Does he want the show to sink? Because if he does, then well, he's doing a damn fine job.
THANK HEAVENS he's out of Doctor Who next season.
ETA: Oh! Apparently, there's ANOTHER RTD interview about COE, this time on EW.
Oh well, lets dwell on that one as well, shall we?
"People often say, 'Fans have got their knives out!' They haven't got any knives. I haven't been stabbed. Nothing's happened."
DO NOT TEMPT ME, DAVIES!!!!!
"But if you can’t handle drama you shouldn’t watch it. Find something else. Go look at poetry. Poetry’s wonderful."
Roses are red
Violets are blue
I AM SO GLAD YOU'RE OFF DOCTOR WHO!!!!
OH and there are many types of drama. I love House. House's a drama. And you know what? It's got an EVER-GROWING cast! Of which only one character has been killed off in 5 seasons. And that's because the guy wanted to leave!
In three seasons and 5 episodes, you've had 3 of your 5 leads killed off, none of which had any problems carrying on with the show.
Yeeeeaaaah, no problem there.
"It would devalue the entire plot if we brought him back."
That is very true.
But who says I don't want to devalue the plot? He died for NOTHING!
"There’s a risk that some people won’t come back to watch now that Ianto’s gone. I thank them for watching the show and I recommend they go watch Supernatural, because those boys are beautiful. And don’t tell me they’re brothers. [Laughs] Not in my mind."
... the fuck???
Ok, first of all, I don't want to know what goes on in that twisted little brain of his, nor do we need to know about his secret Dean/Sam slash fanfics, ok?
Second, I was under the impression that the producer and creator of the show would want fans to STICK AROUND...
Not to mention... People didn't like Jack/Ianto because they were good-looking! I mean, sure, they were, but that's not the reason I liked them! I don't like slash and I loved them together! And the reason I loved Ianto so much was NOT because he was in a slash relationship with Jack!
I'm under the impression that RTD thinks people who like Ianto are fangirls who watch Torchwood just because they like to watch hot men kissing each other and THAT'S IT, it's got nothing to do with the character.
Oh well... he's the "genius", so what do I know?
" If they did research they’d go and look at the history of gay and lesbian characters that I have put on screen. They should simply grow up, do some research, and stop riding on a bandwagon that they actually don’t know anything about."
I really don't want to go on the "RTD HATES GAYS" issue, because I don't really care either way. I'm not mad about Ianto dying because he was gay and I don't think he died because he was gay.
I think they killed him because they didn't know what to do with him.
"We don’t yet know about our fourth series, but I’m fairly confident [it will continue] in some shape or form. I will just sit down and invent new stories and characters. That’s what I’ve spent my entire life doing. It’s not difficult at all. I could write the first 10 scenes in an episode right now."
I'm sorry, RTD, but how can I trust anything you write, why would I want to be emotionally invested in your show and your characters if you have that "OH you liked this character I just killed? TOUGH LUCK, SHIT HAPPENS! IT'S LIFE!" attitude?
Thanks, but no thanks.
He also said a bunch of other things there, but I don't care.
Who wants to watch Supernatural??
After the cut, you have my angry response to his answers.
((I'm sorry, I know LJ is full of RTD hate already, but I couldn't let this one go.))
Warning: This is mostly a rant, so don't expect a well-thought out post.
I've no idea when he did that interview, but I've just found it and I read it because I really wanted an explanation.
Of course I knew that no matter what it would be, I'd still be mad at Russell T Davies for killing Ianto and - well, for the whole of episode 5, but I thought I'd be a little less angry if he explained things. Well... I'm not.
"The problem is, if someone hadn’t died you couldn’t have a threat that great and have them seem untouched by it."
If SOMEONE hadn't died?!
What about Frobisher? What about Frobisher's wife? What about their TWO children? What about Steven? What about Clem? What about Rupesh?
They don't count as SOMEONE?! I'm sorry, but if you feel that your audience won't be emotionally affected by a story in which SEVEN characters die, then you're a lousy writer.
And wasn't that the very same reason why he killed off both Owen and Tosh not FIVE EPISODES EARLIER???
What does that mean anyway? Now, with every new enemy on the show, we'll need to have one major character written off so that it feels like they're in real danger? WHAT THE HELL, RTD?!?!?!?!
"And it had to have the greatest effect on Captain Jack because I always sort of knew that Jack would kill his grandchild in the last episode … and in order to do that you got to have a Captain Jack who is badly, badly damaged. (...) He’s the one that gave away 12 children back in 1965 to these alien gods. So actually he paid the price to damage him, to make this a tale of retribution and perhaps redemption all come around to him, you have to kill his lover."
Right, because being forced to kill his grandson and thus losing any and all hope for a relationship with his own daughter would do nothing for him? It just wouldn't be retribution enough to have someone from his own family killed and his own daughter wanting him dead?
Besides, WHY did Jack have to kill his grandson in the first place? I'm missing the point here. He had just told the 456 that "an injury to one is an injury to all". HE SAID IT! And yet he went along and did it himself. WTF?!
And also, Jack would be feeling infinitely guilty if he'd killed ANY child. He was already kicking himself on the head because of the 12 kids he handed over in 1965, any other child being killed because of him would have that effect on him.
And that reminds me... I was just watching Day 4 again... What sort of stupid plan was that of Torchwood's? They get the attention of the politicians, get the whole place to themselves so they can stop the madness and confront the 456 and at the first response of the 456 they do what? NOTHING! They didn't do ANYTHING AT ALL! They tried shooting the glass to no effect and that's it! They just stood there and died.
If they were going to die anyway, why not OPEN THE DAMN DOOR first and then shoot them? And if you're going to shoot them anyway, why not get into a proper hazmat suit before? And if you're going to kill them anyway, how come none of the nations of the world thought about evacuating Thames House and then sending a HUGE FRELLING BOMB there?!?!?!?!?!?!
"When someone dies you lose all that potential. You grieve over everything they could have been. Everything you hoped for them. Everything they might have achieved with their lives, everyone they could have loved. Every job they could have had. Every joy they could have had. It’s gone."
... And that's a good thing, is it?
"I think you’re being polite and part of what you're saying is that it wasn’t a properly sexualized relationship … that we didn’t show enough details … I think that’s absolute nonsense."
Who said that?
The editor noted that he didn't mean anything like that. We're not complaining because we didn't get a properly sexualized relationship! Where did RTD get that idea?!
"It’s funny because I know a lot of those people complain in the same breath that you get to see Gwen and Rhys being happy. But equally in the same breath, those same people say they don’t like Gwen and Rhys. So clearly they don’t like the happy characters. So why do they even want the gay people to be the happy characters? I don’t know because the happy characters aren’t the ones they are latching on to."
This is a load of crap, I'm sorry. People want the characters they love to be happy and to survive.
Ok: First, not that many people don't like Gwen and Rhys. And lets asume he's right and people don't like them together. Well, Gwen/Rhys, the couple RTD thinks people don't like, and you have Jack/Ianto, the couple that HE KNOWS most Torchwood fans love. So what does do? He ends the relationship people love and keep the ones that people don't like... YEEEEEAH that made total sense.
Second, so I'm to think that Ianto and Jack didn't get a happy ending because people would lose interest in them if it happened? WHAAAAA?!?!?!
Third, if your audience likes f-ed up relationships over happy ones, there's something VERY wrong with the way you're writing happy relationships.
Happy relationships CAN be interesting. Take Jim/Pam or Lily/Marshall, for instance. Or even Gwen and Rhys!!! They're great together.
"I think the details of that [Jack and Ianto] relationship were really beautiful and were really lovely and quite unique with one of them being a formerly straight man, the other being an immortal bisexual, the delicacy of the dance between them. I thought it was beautifully written and beautifully performed.
And if you are grieving the lack of more of it - that’s because it was working so well."
If it was working so well, why take that away? Just WHY???
As a showrunner, why does RTD feel the need to destroy something that was working???
Does he want the show to sink? Because if he does, then well, he's doing a damn fine job.
THANK HEAVENS he's out of Doctor Who next season.
ETA: Oh! Apparently, there's ANOTHER RTD interview about COE, this time on EW.
Oh well, lets dwell on that one as well, shall we?
"People often say, 'Fans have got their knives out!' They haven't got any knives. I haven't been stabbed. Nothing's happened."
DO NOT TEMPT ME, DAVIES!!!!!
"But if you can’t handle drama you shouldn’t watch it. Find something else. Go look at poetry. Poetry’s wonderful."
Roses are red
Violets are blue
I AM SO GLAD YOU'RE OFF DOCTOR WHO!!!!
OH and there are many types of drama. I love House. House's a drama. And you know what? It's got an EVER-GROWING cast! Of which only one character has been killed off in 5 seasons. And that's because the guy wanted to leave!
In three seasons and 5 episodes, you've had 3 of your 5 leads killed off, none of which had any problems carrying on with the show.
Yeeeeaaaah, no problem there.
"It would devalue the entire plot if we brought him back."
That is very true.
But who says I don't want to devalue the plot? He died for NOTHING!
"There’s a risk that some people won’t come back to watch now that Ianto’s gone. I thank them for watching the show and I recommend they go watch Supernatural, because those boys are beautiful. And don’t tell me they’re brothers. [Laughs] Not in my mind."
... the fuck???
Ok, first of all, I don't want to know what goes on in that twisted little brain of his, nor do we need to know about his secret Dean/Sam slash fanfics, ok?
Second, I was under the impression that the producer and creator of the show would want fans to STICK AROUND...
Not to mention... People didn't like Jack/Ianto because they were good-looking! I mean, sure, they were, but that's not the reason I liked them! I don't like slash and I loved them together! And the reason I loved Ianto so much was NOT because he was in a slash relationship with Jack!
I'm under the impression that RTD thinks people who like Ianto are fangirls who watch Torchwood just because they like to watch hot men kissing each other and THAT'S IT, it's got nothing to do with the character.
Oh well... he's the "genius", so what do I know?
" If they did research they’d go and look at the history of gay and lesbian characters that I have put on screen. They should simply grow up, do some research, and stop riding on a bandwagon that they actually don’t know anything about."
I really don't want to go on the "RTD HATES GAYS" issue, because I don't really care either way. I'm not mad about Ianto dying because he was gay and I don't think he died because he was gay.
I think they killed him because they didn't know what to do with him.
"We don’t yet know about our fourth series, but I’m fairly confident [it will continue] in some shape or form. I will just sit down and invent new stories and characters. That’s what I’ve spent my entire life doing. It’s not difficult at all. I could write the first 10 scenes in an episode right now."
I'm sorry, RTD, but how can I trust anything you write, why would I want to be emotionally invested in your show and your characters if you have that "OH you liked this character I just killed? TOUGH LUCK, SHIT HAPPENS! IT'S LIFE!" attitude?
Thanks, but no thanks.
He also said a bunch of other things there, but I don't care.
Who wants to watch Supernatural??