Meta Monday: Avengers of the juvenile persuasion
Hi! Welcome to Meta Monday, in which I go tl;dr about stuff.
ladymercury_10 :Maybe your favorite/least favorite things about [Young Avengers]? And/or how your feelings differ between the different runs?
My favourite thing about Young Avengers is probably how hard all of them try to do the right thing and how brave they all are. My least favourite thing is the deaths.
I have a lot of varying feelings on the different runs, though.
Okay, so my favourite of the Young Avengers run is Children's Crusade, until a couple of pages before the end of issue 8. You get to see the kids working as a team -- and a pretty good one at that -- and Tommy and Billy calling the X-Men on their bullshit re:Wanda and House of M (by pretty much going: "Those of you you who have never killed anyone under mindcontrol/etc, raise your hands" *nobody raises hands* *Magneto pointedly does not raise a hand*). And I really really enjoy the dynamics between the team and that we get to see Tommy get more involved with the team or indeed involved at all.
Seeing the kids grow as people and as a team is what most made this book interesting for me.
On a non-Young Avengers related note, it also heavily featured the Wanda/Doom relationship. I think I imprinted on this relationship, because I am forever disappointed that nothing more was made of it, even though they appear to both genuinely care about and love each other, especially Doom towards Wanda. Also, I will take this occasion to point out that Doom has a type when it comes to women and that type is "can kick his ass at magic" (see: Wanda, Morgan Lefay, Amora in that one What-If). For that matter, he pretty clearly also has a type when it comes to men and that is "has somewhat antagonistic relationship with" (see: Reed Richards, Namor, Loki). On the other hand, Stephen Strange falls more into the "can kick his ass at magic" type than the "has somewhat antagonistic relationship with" (Loki is somewhere between the two), so it looks more like Doom has two types and that said types mostly align along gender lines. /tangent
Anyway, I am a big fan of the Wanda/Doom relationship.
Children's Crusade is actually a really good story and I would love all of it if it weren't for Cassie and Jonas' death. As much as I am forever bitter that Cassie was fridged (as all the fix-its for her death I wrote can attest and even though she is now alive again), I think it's Jonas' death that most gets to me, because it is so completely pointless. It's not even a fridging, because no one even seems to be impacted by his death and spurred into action or whatever. At least Cassie's death had consequences.
With all that, you could think that Children's Crusade is both my favourite and least favourite run of Young Avengers. For a while, that was true. But then there's Gillen's run of Young Avengers.
It's not that I hate it, it's that I just don't feel anything for it. You know how its first tpb is called "Style > Substance"? That's how it felt like to me. It's how a lot of Gillen's work feels to me. I came in pre-invested in all the characters! (Excluding Noh-Varr.) I should have been on the edge of my seat, waiting for every new update. I was not. I was very much not. The plot is riddled with plot holes and unexplained questions (what happened to Tommy, who or what is Patri-Not), the characters are barely sketched in and may only vaguely ressemble previous versions of themselves and some of the implications are unfortunate (Lesbian Utopia worshipping a dude comes to mind first). For all that there was noise about this being a feminist book, it takes until the last issue for us to learn pretty much anything about America beyond "kicks holes in the multiverse". You will also notice that the gender ratio on this team is no better than in the previous team.
The art doesn't help. McKelvie has a massive same face problem (and same body type problem, especially when it comes to women). I'll grant that he's far from unique among comics artist (Phil Noto is very same-facey, Olivier Coipel pretty much only has two body types (+ Spidey), even Jim Cheung has a slight same-face issue), but his expressions are also stiff and the action poses mostly not dynamic. On top of that, the colouring is flattens everything and leeches emotion out of scenes.
I hated the ending of Children's Crusade, but at least it made me feel something (and Cassie's death was actually foreshadowed in issue 2). Young Avengers v2 did not.
My favourites of the Young Avengers are Cassie, Tommy and Kate. I also love Teddy and Eli, like America, am broadly positive towards Jonas and David, am mostly indifferent to Billy and Loki and have no fucks to give about Nate and Noh-Varr.
My ideal Young Avengers line-up (from people who have been on the Young Avengers so far) is Cassie, Tommy, Kate, Teddy, Eli and America, with occasional members/supporting team Jonas and David. Billy can be Teddy's boyfriend-who-used-to-be-a-superhero-but-we-don't-talk-about-that. I like the current Loki right where he is, with Verity, but I would be nice to have them drop by every once in a while. Molly should also drop by from time to time. And I want Tommy and Cassie to bond. Hell, I want everyone to bond with everyone. FRIENDSHIPS FOR ALL! Nate and Noh-Varr can be the antagonists, I guess.
Which reminds me. Does anyone know where Eli got to?
Because it's been ages since I saw him in a comic. Even the recent Battleworld AU/whetever we're calling this current Marvel event didn't have him in the Young Avengers issue. (Everyone ever appears to be pretending Jonas never existed. Boo.)
Also, my favourite Young Avengers fic has now been Jossed, but remains forever amazing, so I'm going to rec it once more.
reclaiming her star (6582 words) by NightsMistress
Chapters: 1/1
Fandom: Young Avengers
Rating: Teen And Up Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Characters: Cassie Lang
Additional Tags: post volume 2, shameless fix-it fic
Summary:
It's not the coming back to life that's hard, Cassie learns, but adjusting to what has happened after she died.
I hope that at least somewhat answered the questions!
Next time, I'll be talking about writing a novel. (The Meta Monday Masterpost is here. If you want me to talk about anything, let me know over there.)
This entry was originally posted at http://dhampyresa.dreamwidth.org/83561.html and has
comments over there.
ladymercury_10 :Maybe your favorite/least favorite things about [Young Avengers]? And/or how your feelings differ between the different runs?
My favourite thing about Young Avengers is probably how hard all of them try to do the right thing and how brave they all are. My least favourite thing is the deaths.
I have a lot of varying feelings on the different runs, though.
Okay, so my favourite of the Young Avengers run is Children's Crusade, until a couple of pages before the end of issue 8. You get to see the kids working as a team -- and a pretty good one at that -- and Tommy and Billy calling the X-Men on their bullshit re:Wanda and House of M (by pretty much going: "Those of you you who have never killed anyone under mindcontrol/etc, raise your hands" *nobody raises hands* *Magneto pointedly does not raise a hand*). And I really really enjoy the dynamics between the team and that we get to see Tommy get more involved with the team or indeed involved at all.
Seeing the kids grow as people and as a team is what most made this book interesting for me.
On a non-Young Avengers related note, it also heavily featured the Wanda/Doom relationship. I think I imprinted on this relationship, because I am forever disappointed that nothing more was made of it, even though they appear to both genuinely care about and love each other, especially Doom towards Wanda. Also, I will take this occasion to point out that Doom has a type when it comes to women and that type is "can kick his ass at magic" (see: Wanda, Morgan Lefay, Amora in that one What-If). For that matter, he pretty clearly also has a type when it comes to men and that is "has somewhat antagonistic relationship with" (see: Reed Richards, Namor, Loki). On the other hand, Stephen Strange falls more into the "can kick his ass at magic" type than the "has somewhat antagonistic relationship with" (Loki is somewhere between the two), so it looks more like Doom has two types and that said types mostly align along gender lines. /tangent
Anyway, I am a big fan of the Wanda/Doom relationship.
Children's Crusade is actually a really good story and I would love all of it if it weren't for Cassie and Jonas' death. As much as I am forever bitter that Cassie was fridged (as all the fix-its for her death I wrote can attest and even though she is now alive again), I think it's Jonas' death that most gets to me, because it is so completely pointless. It's not even a fridging, because no one even seems to be impacted by his death and spurred into action or whatever. At least Cassie's death had consequences.
With all that, you could think that Children's Crusade is both my favourite and least favourite run of Young Avengers. For a while, that was true. But then there's Gillen's run of Young Avengers.
It's not that I hate it, it's that I just don't feel anything for it. You know how its first tpb is called "Style > Substance"? That's how it felt like to me. It's how a lot of Gillen's work feels to me. I came in pre-invested in all the characters! (Excluding Noh-Varr.) I should have been on the edge of my seat, waiting for every new update. I was not. I was very much not. The plot is riddled with plot holes and unexplained questions (what happened to Tommy, who or what is Patri-Not), the characters are barely sketched in and may only vaguely ressemble previous versions of themselves and some of the implications are unfortunate (Lesbian Utopia worshipping a dude comes to mind first). For all that there was noise about this being a feminist book, it takes until the last issue for us to learn pretty much anything about America beyond "kicks holes in the multiverse". You will also notice that the gender ratio on this team is no better than in the previous team.
The art doesn't help. McKelvie has a massive same face problem (and same body type problem, especially when it comes to women). I'll grant that he's far from unique among comics artist (Phil Noto is very same-facey, Olivier Coipel pretty much only has two body types (+ Spidey), even Jim Cheung has a slight same-face issue), but his expressions are also stiff and the action poses mostly not dynamic. On top of that, the colouring is flattens everything and leeches emotion out of scenes.
I hated the ending of Children's Crusade, but at least it made me feel something (and Cassie's death was actually foreshadowed in issue 2). Young Avengers v2 did not.
My favourites of the Young Avengers are Cassie, Tommy and Kate. I also love Teddy and Eli, like America, am broadly positive towards Jonas and David, am mostly indifferent to Billy and Loki and have no fucks to give about Nate and Noh-Varr.
My ideal Young Avengers line-up (from people who have been on the Young Avengers so far) is Cassie, Tommy, Kate, Teddy, Eli and America, with occasional members/supporting team Jonas and David. Billy can be Teddy's boyfriend-who-used-to-be-a-superhero-but-we-don't-talk-about-that. I like the current Loki right where he is, with Verity, but I would be nice to have them drop by every once in a while. Molly should also drop by from time to time. And I want Tommy and Cassie to bond. Hell, I want everyone to bond with everyone. FRIENDSHIPS FOR ALL! Nate and Noh-Varr can be the antagonists, I guess.
Which reminds me. Does anyone know where Eli got to?
Because it's been ages since I saw him in a comic. Even the recent Battleworld AU/whetever we're calling this current Marvel event didn't have him in the Young Avengers issue. (Everyone ever appears to be pretending Jonas never existed. Boo.)
Also, my favourite Young Avengers fic has now been Jossed, but remains forever amazing, so I'm going to rec it once more.
reclaiming her star (6582 words) by NightsMistress
Chapters: 1/1
Fandom: Young Avengers
Rating: Teen And Up Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Characters: Cassie Lang
Additional Tags: post volume 2, shameless fix-it fic
Summary:
It's not the coming back to life that's hard, Cassie learns, but adjusting to what has happened after she died.
I hope that at least somewhat answered the questions!
Next time, I'll be talking about writing a novel. (The Meta Monday Masterpost is here. If you want me to talk about anything, let me know over there.)
This entry was originally posted at http://dhampyresa.dreamwidth.org/83561.html and has
comments over there.