Article stuff.

[delta_mai]

Ok, first of all - thanks so much for your views on Charlie Sheen.  They really helped my article, which is now all done.  I'll be posting it later this week, along with my column for this month.  To help me write that, or to just have an interesting discussion (I think I'm going to start doing Interesting Discussion posts :D) what are your views?

Poll

Comments

[bluemage55]

If you don't believe me I urge you to read the entire logs here:http://firedoglake.com/merged-manning-lamo-chat-logs/ . If not then you're just making claims without all the evidence. These are all the logs without censorship. Anything in newspapers or on the news will NOT be the full story, especially if it's the American media.

I've read those, as well as various accounts on Manning's history and personality (http://thislandpress.com/09/23/2010/private-manning-and-the-making-of-wikileaks-2/, http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/30/wikileaks-cables-bradley-manning?intcmp=239, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/09/AR2010060906170.html), and I drew the conclusion that Manning is an introverted, unhappy, lonely guy with a callous disregard for rules, and a desire for attention.

Yes, I understand he claims that he wants to change something and is willing to die to do so. But the available evidence does not suggest that this is a sincere calling that he'd adopted all of his life. Rather, he appears to have simply drifted through life aimlessly, until he reached a critical mass of despondency (fueled by a break-up of his first relationship, adjustment issues, and other emotional problems), at which point he latched onto the first opportunity to make something of his life. His story reeks of a depressed person making a cry for help and attention. It's a rebel without a cause type of mindset, the same vulnerable sort that fanatic/extremist organizations look for when they recruit vulnerable youths to become martyrs (notice how he is more afraid of a negatively publicized image than the death penalty).

Do you know what his treatment is? They've deviated away from normal policy.

It actually might be difficult to see due to your LJ settings, but I included a hyperlink in my previous comment on his treatment, as specified by his own lawyer. I'll repaste it here (http://www.armycourtmartialdefense.info/2010/12/typical-day-for-pfc-bradley-manning.html). Manning is classified as a maximum security detainee, and is additionally held under "Prevention of Injury" conditions (measures taken to prevent him from hurting himself, one step short of suicide watch). His treatment follows the letter of those procedures, as would be expected for any highly publicized inmate. Yes, the conditions seem harsh to civilians, but such is military prison.

[delta_mai]

All of what you say is possible. I guess I'm trying not to judge him on WHY he did what he did: all whistleblowers or heroes or pioneers over the years probably weren't the most sane of people. Think about it - to do something against the norm you can't be the epitome of mental stability. So I guess to me it doesn't really matter why he did it, just the fact that he did. So whether it was so his life would mean something (which honestly I don't see as bad - we all want our lives to mean something), or just because he needed to rebel for his own selfish reasons, or even if he were just driven by his ideals it doesn't matter. Whatever his motives, they drove him to leak this information which I see as a good thing.

As for his punishment, it is a tricky subject. True, he broke the law and is being punished accordingly. But because of the nature of what he did, rebelling against a corrupt system in favour of freedom of speech, this is where the laws get murky. Look at it this way - if someone does something wrong against a right system, they should be punished. But what if they do something right against a wrong system?

Of course it's not as black and white as this, and what he did was potentially dangerous. I just think that the corruption of the military should be the thing under scrutiny and on trial here, not him.

Thanks for these views - they really challenged how I saw the issue. It's great to have such varied opinions available for discussion!

[bluemage55]

Whatever his motives, they drove him to leak this information which I see as a good thing.

I wholeheartedly agree that it's a good thing, I just hesitate to jump on the hero-worship train as some people have (some deleterious effects of this can be seen in people automatically dismissing the sexual misconduct charges against Assange). I prefer to take the view that good things can come from flawed or even bad people.

Look at it this way - if someone does something wrong against a right system, they should be punished. But what if they do something right against a wrong system?

Then they should be detained properly, found guilty of their crime at trial court, and then the system should be held to account in appeals to successively higher courts, after which point the person can be appropriately vindicated.

Hmm, that sounded less brainwashed pro-establishment in my head. XD I guess my study of the law has led me to the belief that however flawed our system might be, it still generally preserves due process and does what it's supposed to.

Thanks for these views - they really challenged how I saw the issue. It's great to have such varied opinions available for discussion!

Anytime. A mere chorus of agreement wouldn't make for much intelligent debate! :)

[delta_mai]

I would still call him a hero, I think, but my definition of a hero isn't someone flawless. He had the bravery to leak those files and hopefully society will benefit from it. Plus, having read the chat logs I totally understand what he was going through mentally and emotionally as I have been through (and am going through) similar problems. In fact, for me his fragility makes me admire him even more - he did what he felt was morally right despite his fragile emotional state and knowing full well the pressure it would put on him and the dangerous situation he placed himself in. To me, that makes him a hero. But it's different for everyone.

That is a totally good system of trials there. If only the US government agreed with you!

Yep :D Plus it's interesting to see what others think - I had the polar opposites on here, albeit with most people supporting Manning, and I'm really glad that you offered an in-between view of the situation because for a while there I was leaning towards hero worship.