Canon?

[deird1]

It really is quite weird reading an internet discussion, forgetting about it, finding it again a year later, and discovering you now agree with the other side.

In other news, the Buffy comics are definitely not canon.

…possibly I should explain?

Comments

[slaymesoftly]

*nods vigorously*

[angearia]

Suddenly, I could write a Buffy fic and say that canon for that fic was “The show. Just BtVS, not AtS.”

Isn't that what Joss is doing too as the creator? He's saying canon for the Buffyverse includes Season 8, just the way you define canon for your fic. Then again, it's a part of the compact a reader makes when they choose to read your story - do they accept what the creator has defined as canon or not?

[eowyn_315]

Isn't that what Joss is doing too as the creator?Er, not quite. A fanfic author decides what parts of canon are relevant to their fic, but no author assumes that their fic IS canon. Joss, as the creator, is saying, "This thing I'm writing right now is canon." It doesn't mean you have to like it, or pay any attention to it - hell, didn't Gabs just post about people who think the show ended at season 3? - but it's not the same as a fanfic author's establishment of canon for a fic

[angearia]

I think for me, it's the word canon being wrapped up in authority. I'd rather someone say "I don't believe in canon." then for everyone to say "I have my own personal canon." Just because canon, by the nature of the word, is supposed to be a defined arena. This is the boundary - here goes the story

[eowyn_315]

Agreed on all of that. :) I've seen a lot of people make the determination of canonicity based on quality - i.e. season 8 sucks, everyone's out of character, and the plots are cracky, therefore it's not canon. But people make those complaints about BtVS season 7 or AtS season 4, and it doesn't make them any less canon, so I'm not sure why quality should be a determining factor.

[ms_scarletibis]

My canon is the TV show (all the episodes) and nothing else.

All that and a bag of chips :D

[beer_good_foamy]

My canon is the TV show (all the episodes) and nothing else.

Partly agreed. The trick is that, as much as I think the Season 8 comics don't fit with (or even make a point of contradicting) the TV series, it's still Joss' story and, y'know, there's a reason we put those disclaimers on fics. If he says it's canon that Buffy's a bankrobber and Willow's into zoophilia, then as much as I happily disregard the comics when discussing or ficcing the TV show, I honestly find it hard to say "Yeah, but what does Joss know."

On the other hand, to quote Joss himself, "canon is key, as is continuity." As I see it, with Season 8 you have to choose one or the other. And personally I prefer the latter to the former.

So I'm increasingly leaning towards a very simple approach:

Me like TV show.
What happen in TV show happen in TV show.
What no happen in TV show no happen in TV show.
Canon? What is?

[stormwreath]

If he says it's canon that Buffy's a bankrobber and Willow's into zoophilia

Oz was only a wolf for three days per month, remember...

[beer_good_foamy]

...during which he locked himself in a cage since the Jerry Garcia look didn't turn Willow on. ;-)

[stormwreath]

he locked himself in a cage

Well, we also know that Willow is into bondage and locking people in cages, don't we?

Or was that just Vamp!Willow?

[stormwreath]

For me, using the term "personal canon" is on a par with people saying "It's literally raining cats and dogs". It's turning the word 'canon' into the exact opposite of what it's supposed to mean.

Which is fine. The English language evolves; words change their meaning. But it can cause communication problems if one person is using 'canon' to mean "the officially accepted baseline that everybody accepts" and another is using it to mean, apparently, "whatever I personally accept, and I don't care about you, but you can create your own canon if you want"...

[lavastar]

I despise when people misuse the word literally.
But then it gives me an excuse to say they can go fuck themselves, and explain that I'm changing the usage of the word fuck to mean, um...something not mean? I don't actually do this in real life, obviously. :D

This kind of language malingering is also what leads to some otherwise perfectly nice people thinking it's okay and not offensive to use "gay" or "fag" as an insult - because in this context it doesn't mean homosexual anymore, it just means stupid! *sigh*

[deird1]

But then it gives me an excuse to say they can go fuck themselves, and explain that I'm changing the usage of the word fuck to mean, um...something not mean?

*sporfles*

[angearia]

This. We agree. But it's probably a pro-Season 8 conspiracy, isn't it? We're not to be trusted. ;)