I Would Sell Out the Nation

[condwiramurs]

I promise I'm still chipping away at Indestructible.

But after I responded to mary's comment on my latest essay, discussing Severus' motivation for joining the DEs, I had another small revelation that snapped some massive realizations about the WW and the HP books into focus for me.* Enough strands for another essay series if I try to follow them

Comments

[sweettalkeress]

I think you may be onto something here. If I understand correctly your argument is essentially that the wizards feel free to abuse the muggles at their will and whim as long as the muggles don't know what's going on, but the Death Eaters threaten to undermine the secrecy, and expose the WW to the wrath of the muggles, which is why they're a danger, right? So the Death Eaters who want to undermine secrecy attempt to deflect accusations by blaming the muggleborns

[condwiramurs]

Thanks. :) When I thought about the secrecy aspect and hit on the word 'treason,' suddenly a lot of gaps just filled themselves in, so I ran with it.

I started typing a reply, but it turned into a long post, and then another long tangent post, and I just skjhfjdhf.

In answer to your question: basically, yes. I'll reply more fully more in my follow-up posts.

Interesting point about the Jews being used as middle-men and then blamed! It does kinda fit with the Muggleborn issue yeah. Also they were very often blamed as having caused defeat in wars, etc. - the Nazis promulgated a myth that the Jews had somehow 'stabbed the Germans in the back' (it was a deliberately chosen propaganda image) and so caused them to lose WWI and the resulting economic catastrophe.

Agree RE Hermione. I hadn't heard that interpretation of HARRY before. But yeah, with the superiority angle. And I mean, if he was meant to be read as being like a Jew reconnecting with his people, why the CHRIST imagery?

[elanor_x]

// And I mean, if he was meant to be read as being like a Jew reconnecting with his people, why the CHRIST imagery

[condwiramurs]

In JKR world, all wizards are Aryan supermen. Rowling also has a feel for myths, and unconsciously used some stereotypes (historically used against Jews) to describe her not wholly good characters: goblins and Snape (a large, hooked nose and greasy black hair). In other books, it would've been a joke "those self-proclaimed 'Aryans' are more 'Jewish' than real Jews" and I think JKR tried to do it to some extent, but it hasn't succeeded for me.

Yeah, exactly. It just all so easily turns into a lot of ugh and unfortunate implications. And yes, RE Hermione - the whole blood purity thing within the WW is a debate over who counts AS A WIZARD, not who counts as human. Unless of course we define human being as = wizard. Which, um. Ugh.

Witch hunts-- are you now, or have you ever been?

[terri_testing]

Funnily enough, my leisure (re)reading this week before you posted this, Condwiramurs, was Barbara Kingsolver's The Lacuna

Re: Witch hunts-- are you now, or have you ever been?

[condwiramurs]

Thank

Re: Witch hunts-- are you now, or have you ever been?

[condwiramurs]

Thinking further here:

I went back and looked at that scene outside the portrait. And it's written differently than I recalled, but in a way that's very interesting. She doesn't say 'you can't wait to be Death Eaters.' Look:

There was no pity in Lily’s voice. “It’s too late. I’ve made excuses for you for years. None of my friends can understand why I even talk to you. You and your precious little Death Eater friends - you see, you don’t even deny it! You don’t even deny that’s what you’re all aiming to be! You can’t wait to join You-Know-Who, can you?”
He opened his mouth, but closed it without speaking.Look at what she says: "your precious little DEATH EATER friends." And then about LATER JOINING YKW

Re: Witch hunts-- are you now, or have you ever been?

[condwiramurs]

It's the DA and Marietta. Only nobody was making you unknowingly sign a cursed parchment that would scar you if you spoke beforehand. They just weren't explaining precisely who and what was behind anything, and leaving it seem like mere discussion.

And only very very quietly making further individual approaches to likely candidates they've used this to IDENTIFY.

And Severus just more or less unknowingly tossed a giant roadblock up between him and the preservationists. Leaving him more open to the draw of the abolitionist camps. Which necessarily cloak themselves, some more than others. Within each other.

[danajsparks]

I've been catching up on HP stuff over the last few weeks after taking a break for a while, and I'm loving the essays you've been posting lately

[danajsparks]

Thinking more... Perhaps an explanation for why Dumbledore remained so quiet about Voldemort's true identity and ancestry is that revealing the truth could cause a backlash against others with muggle connections.

[sunnyskywalker]

Possibly including himself. His Muggle relatives might be dead by now, but who can be sure he hasn't kept in touch with the younger cousins? And isn't he always eating Muggle sweets and reading the Muggle papers?

[condwiramurs]

Thanks - glad you're enjoying them.

Yeah, JKR's use of the self-hating Jew conspiracy theory motif is just...ick. I have the feeling she really, really didn't think through the implications of using that at all.

[sunnyskywalker]

This makes so much sense! Here we thought JKR not telling us what crimes the DEs committed before the Aurors started shooting was sloppy, and it was actually a clue. (Well, I don't know if she set it up this way intentionally; she might have thought she wrote in some appalling mass murders but forgot to actually put those words on the page. But I think it works this way regardless.) Being a DE was itself a crime, because DEs were sworn to destroy Secrecy. That works for me.

Because we see all sorts of deep-seated prejudice, and all sorts of violence, and most of that just gets frowns and sighs. A lot of it over how much work it's going to be to cover up rather than concern for the Muggles as fellow people. Wizards cursing each other horribly? Must be Tuesday. More paperwork at the Ministry if it's unusually bad. The DEs must have been doing something more than just torturing and killing people. Revealing magic to Muggles at large while doing so would fit the bill. Or threatening to do so

Recruiting

[terri_testing]

Plus, it's a perfect cover for Tom when he's recruiting--same as I said in "Dark Magic Doth Never Prosper," that when people like Lily told Severus ALL Dark Magic was Evil, he could disregard when she said the DE's use of Dark Magic might be evil.

So, too, if just advocating the abolition of Secrecy is worth a trip to Azkaban, and if the mainstream always portrays those who do as depraved traitors capable of any crime or sin, why believe those nasty rumors about Our Leader?

And once one WAS in, Tom could lead recruits into more and more desperate acts, on the "might as well be hanged for a sheep" principle.

Re: Recruiting

[condwiramurs]

Oh yes, very good points. The insistent rhetoric of those most opposed to Voldemort and his goals itself feeding into the plausible deniability and recruiting tactics of the organization... are Slinker and Stinker at work together again here, Albus?

[condwiramurs]

You have to not think through how exactly that would happen, but that's why Voldemort recruits teenagers: they're just experienced enough to get caught up in the big ideas and just inexperienced enough to ignore the details.

Exactly. He goes after the naive and the occasional zealot. His older members are, I suspect, other than an occasional personal crony from his schooldays, likely the remaining former members of the KOW - already militant and committed to the idea of overturning the law, as well as isolated from moderate realistic thinking about things.

Tom's aims in taking over KoW?

[terri_testing]

Question: did Tom Riddle ever seriously want to overturn Secrecy, or did he just use the idea the way he used Pureblood Supremacism, as a useful way to manipulate others?

And where does the term Death Eaters come from?

Re: Tom's aims in taking over KoW?

[sunnyskywalker]

We can at least say that he doesn't seem to mind if it is broken beyond repair. He at least passively supported giants wreaking havoc and the rest, which the Ministry had an increasingly difficult time covering up; if things had gone on that way for a few more years, Muggles might have figured out what was going on.

But then what outcome did he hope for? Was wizards as a group openly ruling Muggles an actual goal, or did he not care which side won so long as he lived to do as he pleased afterward? Was the fun in the manipulation, and he would have just as much fun starting over with a new group? Did he genuinely want to be an overlord, whether over wizards or Muggles or both? Or was he trying to get as many magical humans and beings killed as possible, to reduce the competition

Re: Tom's aims in taking over KoW?

[condwiramurs]

I don't see Tom as being the sort to quietly hide himself away indefinitely, no. I think he was committed to overturning Secrecy so that he himself could rule openly, though what that would look like itself I'm not sure.

Wizards and Muggles as his toy chess pieces to have fight each other? A hierarchy with himself at the top? Getting them to wipe enough of each other out that he could rule the survivors? Getting Muggles to wipe out wizards so he could be the only wizard in the world and rule them?

Whatever it was, though, he'd first want the whole EWW at least under his grasp, I think. Then use that to roll out his further plans.