The (Mis)Education of Harry James Potter - Part II

[condwiramurs]

Here's the other half of my monster post on Harry's moral education and Severus as moral teacher.

Part I is here.

(I've never hit the word limit for a single LJ post before!)

Comments

[jana_ch]

If he can’t save the brat from death, at least Sev will try to save him from damnation. I don’t know what kind of rewards and punishments exist in the Potterverse afterlife-Dumbledore doesn’t seem to be suffering at King’s Cross-but I fear Severus failed to rescue Harry’s soul. Harry was tossing around Crucio for no good reason only a few hours before his demise, and I saw no evidence of repentance, or even awareness that repentance was advisable.

Being Gryffindor means never having to say you’re sorry.

[condwiramurs]

Yes, exactly. At a certain point you just want to gently pull him back and say, 'Severus, dear, please stop beating your head against a brick wall.' But he's determined, you gotta give him that.

That's one of the things that most puzzles/annoys/infuriates me about the books. We're supposed to look at the people who apologize and repent as weak and cowardly and evil, while the righteous heroes never ever ever have to actually learn or change or reflect on themselves. sjhdfkjsdf

[jana_ch]

Everyone abuses Severus, but only one person in all of canon ever apologizes for it: Voldemort. “I regret it,” he said as he dropped a giant snake on Sev’s head.

[condwiramurs]

Every time I go back to the books and remember that Voldemort's the only one who actually pays him a proper compliment or *apologizes* for anything to him, I just boggle all over again.

[penguinsuzie]

This is really interesting and I think you've hit the nail on the head. The only thing I don't agree with is the book being much of a negative influence. The book and knowledge wasn't bad so much as Harry's use of it to cheat in class, blind trust because he liked the Prince and trying out unknown spells on people. Some of it was certainly something to be cautious of but the problems all occurred because of Harry. I don't think there was much that was personal in the book, just information and notes which makes it difficult for me to really see it as an influence.

[condwiramurs]

Thanks. :)

I myself don't think the book *itself* is such a huge influence, properly speaking, either - if Harry had had a proper moral backbone at this point he wouldn't have clung to it and tried out all the jinxes and stuff so happily, no. But I think Severus, once he realized the book was in play, would have likely *seen* it as a harmful influence - at the very least, for giving Harry access to those spells and allowing him to cheat, allowing him to feel that he has this nice new friend with totally-not-questionable! taste in humor.

But then, I don't think Sev was terribly forgiving toward his younger self, so.

[oryx_leucoryx]

"I thought you could start," said Snape, a malicious smile on his lips, "with boxes one thousand and twelve to one thousand and fifty-six. You will find some familiar names in there, which should add interest to the task. Here, you see . . ."

Assuming the reports are in chronological order, and that it goes back to the founding of Hogwarts, then in the approximately 980 years from the founding to 1970 (before the arrival of the Marauders' year) there were 1011 boxes worth of reports, slightly over a box per year. Then during the 7 years running 1971 to 1978 there were 45 boxes, some 6.4 per year. A very noticeable increase.

[condwiramurs]

True, that is a big jump.

However, we don't know for sure that it was really a steady one-box-a-year average until that point. It's possible that, as the population increased in the last couple of centuries, there was a corresponding increase in incidents. Meaning a long period of multiple years per box, then to a box a year, then a gradual climb up to multiple boxes per year.

Though I'm perfectly happy to headcanon that the Marauders were indeed still unusually prolific and nudged it upwards on their own a bit more...

Sev's concern for Harry's soul

[terri_testing]

See, I'm first among those you're refuting, condwiramurs; my very first fanfic, and the impulse that propelled me into HP-fandom, was concerned with CORRECTING what I saw as canon-Sev's determination to protect the children in his care physically AT THE EXPENSE of moral concerns

Re: Sev's concern for Harry's soul

[condwiramurs]

Yeah, when I first entered fandom I thought the same way for a bit. I can see where the idea comes from. But that belief just...faded in me the more I thought about Severus, and why he is the way he is, and what he does.

Because, if he's as internally bent out of shape about how he fucked up and is struggling with moral questions the way we generally read him as being, then I can't see how Severus - in his sincere desire to help and protect the kids - is going to be utterly indifferent to that side of things. Be able to separate moral from physical danger so easily. After all, one of the most immediate and agonizing examples of the dangers that are out there that he personally knows firsthand is both physical and profoundly moral. The LAST thing he'd want is for one of his Slyths - or any other kid - to follow anyone with a charming lie and start wrecking lives. Like he did.

And his harsh strictness, his repeated insistence on giving the kids nasty consequences for things, reads to me like someone who's never been shown an example

Re: Sev's concern for Harry's soul

[terri_testing]

You showed that Severus tried to make the detentions more unpleasant (longer) to make them sink in more, and hinted (mendaciously) that they should be continued the next year. But I think he saw that his fundamental strategy wasn’t working, and that he did come up with something else

Re: Sev's concern for Harry's soul

[condwiramurs]

Aah, oh, now that's a very interesting reading. I like it, yes. Not just trying to teach the boy with his last words about unforgivables and occlumency, but also the whole dramatic reveal of the Prince - yes, that does rather fit.

So you think he knew the book was in the Room and got access to it, but left it for Harry to find with a note? I suppose I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Sev knows all about that Room, yes...

Good catch on the Gryffs. Ugh.