What do you think happens to kids who live right there in Hogsmeade? There should be some, if it is a village in the normal sense. Are they automatically vetted thanks to having been raised in a wizarding-only society, and already having access to the village? Or are there no families with children there? Is Hogsmeade a singles only village?
If Hogsmeade is like a normal village, with all sorts of families, I wonder if it is attractive to Muggle-borns who want to bypass some of the wizarding security?
You are right that there must be no mention of the Sorting Hat in obvious places such as Hogwarts a History, I think at least Sirius expected to be able to influence his Sorting (and he probably expected to be among the first few to be Sorted) - which is why he wanted to know James' preference. I think at least some families (especially Slytherins) do pass at least some information about the Sorting to their children.
BTW the headquarters for one of the goblin rebellions were in Hogsmeade. Not sure how that works.
Interesting ideas regarding Albus. Yes, must have been Fidelius, because even Tom doesn't use it to needle Albus (though they did have some past debates about love vs Dark Arts or something along those lines - I wonder if that came up when Tom was having his Career Advice talk?).
Seriously, I think we'd have to say "Alrady vetted."
But, you know, the fact is we never once see a child in Hogsmeade. Not one. You'd have expected to see a herd running around playing pickup Quidditch, or gawking after the big kids on the Hogwarts weekends, or a baby's crying heard through a window, but.. no. Not one, ever. Nor do we ever hear of any students claiming to have been raised there.
So maybe it's a retirement community, really...
(But who the hell would set up a refuge and not bring in the kids?)
The goblins... well, after all, Hogsmeade was originally created as a refuge for magicals against Muggles, right?
Oh my god, the thought of Albus doing Tom's Career Advice talk--the mind explodes. In my 'verse, it would be post-blackmail, too!
Of course, that Albus might have been Head of Slytherin was rather a post-script--the rest of the essay works without. Still, it's a fascinating one....
Re: Hogsmeadeoryx_leucoryxOctober 30 2014, 04:48:22 UTC
Re: kids from Hogsmeade - whitehound uses that as an explanation for the mysteriously vanishing Gryffindor girls and other characters that should be there but never get mentioned - in her view they go home after classes, so never get involved in things like the DA. Maybe the under-11 kids from Hogsmeade avoid the Hogwarts students. They prefer to go out when it is quiet and relatively safe, without hordes of big kids out to get the newest items from the joke shop.
Truthfully, it isn't even necessary for the Hogsmeade kids to hide for them to never be mentioned. Harry has such blinders on that he doesn't even know the name of a kid whom he has had in classes (of only roughly 20 kids - or 18 if there really are only 3 gryffindor girls) for 5 years.
It is just about as likely that Harry merely never notices any younger kids in Hogsmeade - or for that matter those 3 roomies of Hermione - as it is that they are hiding. IF he can ignore the existence of 1 classmate, then surely he can be oblivious to others as well?
Re: Hogsmeadeoryx_leucoryxOctober 30 2014, 05:02:56 UTC
Harry does notice some kids in Diagon Alley. Of course those are the kids that are admiring racing brooms, he might not have noticed the kids who were doing more boring stuff.
Wouldn't it be odd for 2 of Hermione's roommates to not join the DA when all the Gryffindors of their year did? (Well, except Seamus, but that was an issue.)
Re: Not joining the D.A.oryx_leucoryxOctober 30 2014, 15:41:58 UTC
Aha! Those were girls who would have wanted Hermione to think that some House other than Gryffindor was the 'best'. (Too bad Pansy, Susan and the rest met Hermione before them and gave her ideas... )
Re: Hogsmeadeterri_testingOctober 30 2014, 14:29:50 UTC
True, and when he notices the toddlers at the World Cup it's when they're doing something--blowing up a slug with Daddy's wand, racing on their toy brooms....
For that matter, many of the Hogsmeade weekends are in winter---maybe the little ones are indoors. (And in fact, if you were a parent, would you want your five-year-old out playing while those teenagers are roughhousing without adequate supervision? Zonko's and Honeydukes might have liked Hogwarts weekends, but I bet people who didn't profit directly hated them.) Furthermore, if Hogsmeade has a dame school--which it ought--there's no reason to suppose it's adopted the modern innovation of giving students Saturdays off. Maybe the five-to-ten year olds are all cooped up in a stuffy classroom somewhere, dreaming of the time they'll be big kids and get Saturdays off.
And you're right, all that really has to happen for Harry not to notice a bunch of students going home every afternoon is that none of the Gryffindor BOYS in his year is a day student. Any other year or house or gender, having them around for classes and lunch, then disappear, would go utterly unregarded.
And younger kids are not interested in teenagers' plays. And Hogsmeade children know the village good enough not to have to be on the streets - surely they have their houses on trees and backyards that are much more interesting and where they can play much better than anywhere Hogwarts students can go and know... When I was a kid, we had a Cottage near a summer camp for school children. The children were spending 3 weeks there and they went home. Maybe some of them returned the next year. After one turn, another 3-weeks-inhabitants came. Even if they were making tours in the woods and to the village, they hardly knew we were there, too. We were knew the terrain - if we did not wnt to be seen, we were invisible. And we had no desire to speak with them. They had their programme, we could do anything as we pleased, because we were home. Even if some of them were of the same age as us. The only holidays we actually cared about those camp children were when there was my half-sister. We used to envy the camp children that they are spending part of their holidays out of home, and they envied us that we are with our families all the two months of holidays... :-))
This also brings up the question of why the only friend (mentioned) of the Twins is Lee Jordan (who seemingly disappeared later on), Are there only 3 boys in their dorm or do the other boys so dislike them that they avoid them outside the dorm room? Are they leary of the Twins' 'jokes'.
And are ALL the Gryffindor prefects so lackadaisical about the position that Harry never ever sees them DO anything (except for Percy and Hermione)
Twins and prefectsterri_testingNovember 19 2014, 16:32:05 UTC
Alas, I don't think we can conclude that definitively, although it's certainly suggestive.
Harry, however, is Oblivious-Boy--his Power of Love so blinds him to the people around him that in fifth year, he doesn't know the names (or in some cases, recognize) some of the kids in other houses he's been taking classes with for over four years, and in sixth year, he has to be introduced to a Gryffindor quidditch player a year older than him (Cormac).
So the fact that HARRY never noticed the twins having other friends, or noticed prefects doing anything, just means none of those older kids particularly took an interest in HIM.
And in fact, Harry had that cloak from first year, and that map from 3rd--it would be hard for a prefect to catch him in anything.
Back to the twins--it is notable that the only prefects we see trying to put a stop to their misbehavior are Percy (protesting the torture of the salamander) and Hermione (protesting the product-testing on firsties), and neither was at all effective.....
Re: Career Adviceoryx_leucoryxOctober 30 2014, 13:44:11 UTC
The talk would have been around Easter of 1943. We don't know when Tom started taking the basilisk out for walkies. But Myrtle's death was in June, so definitely after that talk (if it ever happened).
What do you think happens to kids who live right there in Hogsmeade? There should be some, if it is a village in the normal sense. Are they automatically vetted thanks to having been raised in a wizarding-only society, and already having access to the village? Or are there no families with children there? Is Hogsmeade a singles only village?
If Hogsmeade is like a normal village, with all sorts of families, I wonder if it is attractive to Muggle-borns who want to bypass some of the wizarding security?
You are right that there must be no mention of the Sorting Hat in obvious places such as Hogwarts a History, I think at least Sirius expected to be able to influence his Sorting (and he probably expected to be among the first few to be Sorted) - which is why he wanted to know James' preference. I think at least some families (especially Slytherins) do pass at least some information about the Sorting to their children.
BTW the headquarters for one of the goblin rebellions were in Hogsmeade. Not sure how that works.
Interesting ideas regarding Albus. Yes, must have been Fidelius, because even Tom doesn't use it to needle Albus (though they did have some past debates about love vs Dark Arts or something along those lines - I wonder if that came up when Tom was having his Career Advice talk?).
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But, you know, the fact is we never once see a child in Hogsmeade. Not one. You'd have expected to see a herd running around playing pickup Quidditch, or gawking after the big kids on the Hogwarts weekends, or a baby's crying heard through a window, but.. no. Not one, ever. Nor do we ever hear of any students claiming to have been raised there.
So maybe it's a retirement community, really...
(But who the hell would set up a refuge and not bring in the kids?)
The goblins... well, after all, Hogsmeade was originally created as a refuge for magicals against Muggles, right?
Oh my god, the thought of Albus doing Tom's Career Advice talk--the mind explodes. In my 'verse, it would be post-blackmail, too!
Of course, that Albus might have been Head of Slytherin was rather a post-script--the rest of the essay works without. Still, it's a fascinating one....
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It is just about as likely that Harry merely never notices any younger kids in Hogsmeade - or for that matter those 3 roomies of Hermione - as it is that they are hiding. IF he can ignore the existence of 1 classmate, then surely he can be oblivious to others as well?
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Wouldn't it be odd for 2 of Hermione's roommates to not join the DA when all the Gryffindors of their year did? (Well, except Seamus, but that was an issue.)
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For that matter, many of the Hogsmeade weekends are in winter---maybe the little ones are indoors. (And in fact, if you were a parent, would you want your five-year-old out playing while those teenagers are roughhousing without adequate supervision? Zonko's and Honeydukes might have liked Hogwarts weekends, but I bet people who didn't profit directly hated them.) Furthermore, if Hogsmeade has a dame school--which it ought--there's no reason to suppose it's adopted the modern innovation of giving students Saturdays off. Maybe the five-to-ten year olds are all cooped up in a stuffy classroom somewhere, dreaming of the time they'll be big kids and get Saturdays off.
And you're right, all that really has to happen for Harry not to notice a bunch of students going home every afternoon is that none of the Gryffindor BOYS in his year is a day student. Any other year or house or gender, having them around for classes and lunch, then disappear, would go utterly unregarded.
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If there is a dame school, that would be the default for your Neville's education. (Does he get to be Blackboard Monitor?)
Day students - also - none of them are on the Gryffindor Quidditch team, needing help with scheduling.
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When I was a kid, we had a Cottage near a summer camp for school children. The children were spending 3 weeks there and they went home. Maybe some of them returned the next year. After one turn, another 3-weeks-inhabitants came.
Even if they were making tours in the woods and to the village, they hardly knew we were there, too. We were knew the terrain - if we did not wnt to be seen, we were invisible.
And we had no desire to speak with them. They had their programme, we could do anything as we pleased, because we were home.
Even if some of them were of the same age as us.
The only holidays we actually cared about those camp children were when there was my half-sister.
We used to envy the camp children that they are spending part of their holidays out of home, and they envied us that we are with our families all the two months of holidays... :-))
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And are ALL the Gryffindor prefects so lackadaisical about the position that Harry never ever sees them DO anything (except for Percy and Hermione)
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Harry, however, is Oblivious-Boy--his Power of Love so blinds him to the people around him that in fifth year, he doesn't know the names (or in some cases, recognize) some of the kids in other houses he's been taking classes with for over four years, and in sixth year, he has to be introduced to a Gryffindor quidditch player a year older than him (Cormac).
So the fact that HARRY never noticed the twins having other friends, or noticed prefects doing anything, just means none of those older kids particularly took an interest in HIM.
And in fact, Harry had that cloak from first year, and that map from 3rd--it would be hard for a prefect to catch him in anything.
Back to the twins--it is notable that the only prefects we see trying to put a stop to their misbehavior are Percy (protesting the torture of the salamander) and Hermione (protesting the product-testing on firsties), and neither was at all effective.....
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