I'm using my Moebius icon. Hey, this episode had Sam in it (sort of)!
More Atlantis catch-up! Slightly more positive and intrigued rambling about "Grace Under Pressure" that, not surprisingly, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RODNEY.
Episode name has so many meanings, it's almost giddy-inducing.
1. Hemingway claims that courage is "grace under pressure."
2. Rodney is displaying supposed courage under the pressure of lots o' ocean water.
3. There's the pressure of finding a way to save him before he kicks.
4. Basically it's SG-1 episode "Grace"... underwater pressure, lolz.
So aside from Rodney's trust issues and whatnot, the main thing we learn in this episode is that the puddlejumpers' submersible qualities only go so far before they give way to the intense pressure of the ocean. I think this is very interesting! partially because I was always under the assumption that (generally speaking at least) ocean = space, something that's evidently Not So.
BUT! In "Before I Sleep" when Weir #1 wakes up in Atlantis in the past, she's told that she has been rescued as the sole survivor of her puddlejumper... FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE OCEAN. And that this jumper is only down there because it FELL FROM THE SKY AFTER BEING SHOT DOWN BY THE WRAITH. Which probably means that a) much more intense entrance velocity into the ocean when you take into account that it ALSO had to pass through several air atmosphere before it even HIT the surface of the ocean; and b) said velocity was probably making the ship sink faster, which with very limited understanding of physics doesn't seem to want to help things in that whole transitioning-through-pressure stuff.
So from here, one of several possibilities exists:
1. Since jumpers can't as a rule function as submersibles after a certain threshold of pressure, the Ancients instead rescued Weir #1 through some other means, such as teleportation or another device that they took with them/we haven't been introduced to yet.
2. Jumpers can't as a rule function as submersibles after a certain threshold of pressure, but the point where the timeship sunk in the past wasn't as deep as the place where Rodney crashed.
2a. Atlantis itself was situated above the threshold while it was underwater, enabling transportation to and from the city that did not require the use of the Stargate.
3. Janus lied to Weir, reasons unknown, and she was not rescued from the bottom of the ocean.
3a. The timeship that is later discovered by SG-1 on Maybourne's medieval kingdom planet is not ANOTHER timeship, but the SAME ONE.
Sadly, I think #1 might be the closet to the right answer, because it's the obvious Stargate writers' answer. Things don't quite match up? That's because there's variable Z which we haven't figured out quite yet but when we do we promise it'll sort of make things connect (sort of)!
Personally, I like #3 even though it requires (I think) the largest stretch of imagination. Partly because Janus' brushing aside of Weir's inquiries into the fates of her shipmates always did leave something to be desired. And it really doesn't make sense that she lives and they don't (unless you consider the logic of well-the-story-had-to-go-on-somehow), when SHE wasn't even sitting down when they got hit and NO ONE was wearing any sort of seatbelt (lolz, jumperbelts). Not to MENTION, #3 also simplifies a BIT the mess of time "Moebius" makes.
Previously:
- Janus builds Timeship A. Ancients evacuate, leaving Timeship A behind in city because presumably It Doesn't Work.
- Atlantis expendition ends disasterously 10k years later. Weir/Sheppard/Zelenka escape in Timeship A. All travel back in time, where Timeship A is destroyed but in the process Janus is validated in his research. (Weir successfully prevents Atlantis disaster in a timeline where Timeship A doesn't exist in the jumperbay.)
- Janus (?) builds Timeship B in Milky Way after evacuating. Timeship is discovered later by SG-1, who use it to attempt to get a ZPM. They fail/die/bury Timeship B to be discovered later, though it exists in the timeline after it is left by Janus, thus making one object exist in two places in time.
- Buried!Timeship B is uncovered in alt!present!timeline, piloted back to Egypt by alt!SG-1, where things are righted. TIMELINES PRESUMABLY VEER BACK TO PREVIOUS COURSE, ALTHOUGH FISH IN JACK'S POND SUGGEST OTHERWISE?
That last part is sort of fuzzy. Because when do the timelines merge? The tone of the last scene of "Moebius" makes us believe that life did its loop-dee-loop after the end of "Threads" (who wouldn't?), but that everything else up to that is presumably still canon... which includes "It's Good to Be King" (the episode in which SG1 discovers a timeship!). Which means that even if Timeship B was destroyed after a successful mission in Egypt to prevent the further perversion of the timeline (no one talks about unearthing a ship with the ZPM), Janus still leaves Pegasus and still builds another timeship - TIMESHIP C FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.
Which is why #3 is so awesome.
Because instead of the possibility that two timeships existing, #3 says that Timeship A = Timeship B.
Doesn't that make things a lot more sumpler?
- Janus builds Timeship A. Ancients evacuate, leaving Timeship A behind in city because presumably It Doesn't Work.
- Atlantis expendition ends disasterously 10k years later. Weir/Sheppard/Zelenka escape in Timeship A. All travel back in time, where Timeship A is damaged but not completely destroyed. Timeship A is taken back to the Milky Way by Janus for further study.
- Timeship A is discovered 10k years later by SG-1, who use it to attempt to get a ZPM. They fail/die/bury Timeship A to be discovered later, though it exists in the timeline after it is abandoned by Janus.
- Buried!Timeship A is uncovered in alt!presenttimeline, piloted back to Egypt by alt!SG-1, where things are righted.
With #3, the only nagging issue left is the ultimate fate of Timeship A. Again, it's PRESUMED that alt!SG-1 destroys the timeship that eventually rights everything, so really, there's a Timeship B but it's really just the older version of Timeship A.
...
Um.
I get the feeling that I'm talking in circles and this makes about as much sense of hieroglyphs to everyone except me. Clap if I'm actually making sense.
FYI I HEART TIME TRAVEL
(Is that "Long Goodbye" torrent up yet? *TWITCH*)
eta: I think that after this post, I'm not allowed to make fun of the deep meta/metaphysical/post-modernist claims to Atlantis anymore.
eta2: Actually, wait, I still totally can.
eta3: *girly scream* My tag indicates that I haven't done the meta rambling nonsense since OCTOBER. That just has to stop now. (On the other hand, that was sort of the last time SciFi Friday was around to provide me with good ammunition.)
Episode name has so many meanings, it's almost giddy-inducing.
1. Hemingway claims that courage is "grace under pressure."
2. Rodney is displaying supposed courage under the pressure of lots o' ocean water.
3. There's the pressure of finding a way to save him before he kicks.
4. Basically it's SG-1 episode "Grace"... underwater pressure, lolz.
So aside from Rodney's trust issues and whatnot, the main thing we learn in this episode is that the puddlejumpers' submersible qualities only go so far before they give way to the intense pressure of the ocean. I think this is very interesting! partially because I was always under the assumption that (generally speaking at least) ocean = space, something that's evidently Not So.
BUT! In "Before I Sleep" when Weir #1 wakes up in Atlantis in the past, she's told that she has been rescued as the sole survivor of her puddlejumper... FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE OCEAN. And that this jumper is only down there because it FELL FROM THE SKY AFTER BEING SHOT DOWN BY THE WRAITH. Which probably means that a) much more intense entrance velocity into the ocean when you take into account that it ALSO had to pass through several air atmosphere before it even HIT the surface of the ocean; and b) said velocity was probably making the ship sink faster, which with very limited understanding of physics doesn't seem to want to help things in that whole transitioning-through-pressure stuff.
So from here, one of several possibilities exists:
1. Since jumpers can't as a rule function as submersibles after a certain threshold of pressure, the Ancients instead rescued Weir #1 through some other means, such as teleportation or another device that they took with them/we haven't been introduced to yet.
2. Jumpers can't as a rule function as submersibles after a certain threshold of pressure, but the point where the timeship sunk in the past wasn't as deep as the place where Rodney crashed.
2a. Atlantis itself was situated above the threshold while it was underwater, enabling transportation to and from the city that did not require the use of the Stargate.
3. Janus lied to Weir, reasons unknown, and she was not rescued from the bottom of the ocean.
3a. The timeship that is later discovered by SG-1 on Maybourne's medieval kingdom planet is not ANOTHER timeship, but the SAME ONE.
Sadly, I think #1 might be the closet to the right answer, because it's the obvious Stargate writers' answer. Things don't quite match up? That's because there's variable Z which we haven't figured out quite yet but when we do we promise it'll sort of make things connect (sort of)!
Personally, I like #3 even though it requires (I think) the largest stretch of imagination. Partly because Janus' brushing aside of Weir's inquiries into the fates of her shipmates always did leave something to be desired. And it really doesn't make sense that she lives and they don't (unless you consider the logic of well-the-story-had-to-go-on-somehow), when SHE wasn't even sitting down when they got hit and NO ONE was wearing any sort of seatbelt (lolz, jumperbelts). Not to MENTION, #3 also simplifies a BIT the mess of time "Moebius" makes.
Previously:
- Janus builds Timeship A. Ancients evacuate, leaving Timeship A behind in city because presumably It Doesn't Work.
- Atlantis expendition ends disasterously 10k years later. Weir/Sheppard/Zelenka escape in Timeship A. All travel back in time, where Timeship A is destroyed but in the process Janus is validated in his research. (Weir successfully prevents Atlantis disaster in a timeline where Timeship A doesn't exist in the jumperbay.)
- Janus (?) builds Timeship B in Milky Way after evacuating. Timeship is discovered later by SG-1, who use it to attempt to get a ZPM. They fail/die/bury Timeship B to be discovered later, though it exists in the timeline after it is left by Janus, thus making one object exist in two places in time.
- Buried!Timeship B is uncovered in alt!present!timeline, piloted back to Egypt by alt!SG-1, where things are righted. TIMELINES PRESUMABLY VEER BACK TO PREVIOUS COURSE, ALTHOUGH FISH IN JACK'S POND SUGGEST OTHERWISE?
That last part is sort of fuzzy. Because when do the timelines merge? The tone of the last scene of "Moebius" makes us believe that life did its loop-dee-loop after the end of "Threads" (who wouldn't?), but that everything else up to that is presumably still canon... which includes "It's Good to Be King" (the episode in which SG1 discovers a timeship!). Which means that even if Timeship B was destroyed after a successful mission in Egypt to prevent the further perversion of the timeline (no one talks about unearthing a ship with the ZPM), Janus still leaves Pegasus and still builds another timeship - TIMESHIP C FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.
Which is why #3 is so awesome.
Because instead of the possibility that two timeships existing, #3 says that Timeship A = Timeship B.
Doesn't that make things a lot more sumpler?
- Janus builds Timeship A. Ancients evacuate, leaving Timeship A behind in city because presumably It Doesn't Work.
- Atlantis expendition ends disasterously 10k years later. Weir/Sheppard/Zelenka escape in Timeship A. All travel back in time, where Timeship A is damaged but not completely destroyed. Timeship A is taken back to the Milky Way by Janus for further study.
- Timeship A is discovered 10k years later by SG-1, who use it to attempt to get a ZPM. They fail/die/bury Timeship A to be discovered later, though it exists in the timeline after it is abandoned by Janus.
- Buried!Timeship A is uncovered in alt!presenttimeline, piloted back to Egypt by alt!SG-1, where things are righted.
With #3, the only nagging issue left is the ultimate fate of Timeship A. Again, it's PRESUMED that alt!SG-1 destroys the timeship that eventually rights everything, so really, there's a Timeship B but it's really just the older version of Timeship A.
...
Um.
I get the feeling that I'm talking in circles and this makes about as much sense of hieroglyphs to everyone except me. Clap if I'm actually making sense.
FYI I HEART TIME TRAVEL
(Is that "Long Goodbye" torrent up yet? *TWITCH*)
eta: I think that after this post, I'm not allowed to make fun of the deep meta/metaphysical/post-modernist claims to Atlantis anymore.
eta2: Actually, wait, I still totally can.
eta3: *girly scream* My tag indicates that I haven't done the meta rambling nonsense since OCTOBER. That just has to stop now. (On the other hand, that was sort of the last time SciFi Friday was around to provide me with good ammunition.)