This topic pisses me off. World-class artists ARE intellectual geniuses. You can't BE a world-class artist if you aren't a genius! They. Are. Not. Mutually. Exclusive.
Even then, Idiot Savant is an outdated, irrelevant term. They are a particular brand of highly specialized, focused genius. They're not an exception to the rule.
Autistic savant if you wish to be politically correct.
And they aren't geniuses. They have extraordinary abilities in very specific areas and could be considered geniuses within that specific area, but are not overall geniuses. They may be able to do insane calculations in their mind, but ask them why the government collects income tax and see what answer you'll get.
A person can be a genius within a certain field, but still be classified as mentally retarded which is the exception to your rule.
Ok, I can grant the exception, but that exception does not soley apply to world-class artists only. There are savants whose genius like abilities would fall under an intellectual genius subset (like "Rain Man" for instance)
So no, "World-Class Artist" and "Intellectual Genius" are not mututally exclusive. Comparing them is like comparing apples to apples. They may be different varieties, but they are still apples.
I can't say, I've never heard a song Feynman has recorded. :P
But for serious, Bono and Madonna are scary smart people, just not in the way a scientist is. Frankly, if they were dumb, they would not be Bono or Madonna. Famous does not equal Genius. You don't have to be a genius to be famous, but you do have to be a genius in order to know how to market yourself and remain relevant to (or in the cases of both Bono and Madonna, significantly change) pop culture for a generation or more. A Marketing Genius is still a genius. Even so, they both do more than just sing catchy pop songs and market themselves well. They -are- geniuses.
There's this assumption in our society that one is only smart or 'genius' if they are good only in math and lab sciences and are a member of MENSA, and if you do not have that then you aren't a genius. That's totally false. Not everyone can do quantum physics, but not everyone can produce stellar works of art either. Genius comes in many forms and flavors.
I think everyone specializes. Wm and I have about the same IQs about on paper, but I'm a language nerd who has a latent memory for trivia (but can barely remember my coworker's names) and he can't research for crap but is a software engineer and understands physics. There's a ton of creativity in both of us though I'm more traditionally "artistic." It's the same with everyone, we play to our interests and specialize. The people who are transcendent geniuses are more passionate or work harder. It's just a matter of scale.
And honestly, at college, I saw a lot of really "smart" people on paper who were complete idiots at everything including getting their schoolwork done. Without discipline even a genius can't make it.
It is a little bit of a sore spot with me that folks don't get that being artistic is a form of being smart. You'll always hear "Yeah they're smart but can they do Physics?" when it comes to what is considered a qualifier for genius, but you never hear anyone say "Yeah that Hawking guy is pretty smart but can he paint the Sistine Chapel?"
What kills me even more is that there are so many famous geniuses who were not scientists. Beethoven, Van Gogh, Picasso, Mozart, Dali...but those aren't the ones who readily come to mind when the word "Genius" is bandied about. And one of the most famous geniuses of all, Michaelangelo, was both an artist and a scientist!
You're also totally right about discipline, not smarts, being the key to success.
Oh man, Christi, way to pick on the guy in a wheelchair! ;) Just kidding, but I know what you mean.
There are few true "Renaissance men" like Michaelangelo anymore. But I have heard them referred to as geniuses pretty often. It's frustrating because both sides don't really respect the other. You get a lot of art people who feel that the more pragmatic disciplines lack heart and any real connection to "the human condition." And don't get me started on the concept of "selling out" or the "art vs craft" fight.
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Disagree. Person could be an idiot savant.
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Even then, Idiot Savant is an outdated, irrelevant term. They are a particular brand of highly specialized, focused genius. They're not an exception to the rule.
Reply
And they aren't geniuses. They have extraordinary abilities in very specific areas and could be considered geniuses within that specific area, but are not overall geniuses. They may be able to do insane calculations in their mind, but ask them why the government collects income tax and see what answer you'll get.
A person can be a genius within a certain field, but still be classified as mentally retarded which is the exception to your rule.
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So no, "World-Class Artist" and "Intellectual Genius" are not mututally exclusive. Comparing them is like comparing apples to apples. They may be different varieties, but they are still apples.
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But for serious, Bono and Madonna are scary smart people, just not in the way a scientist is. Frankly, if they were dumb, they would not be Bono or Madonna. Famous does not equal Genius. You don't have to be a genius to be famous, but you do have to be a genius in order to know how to market yourself and remain relevant to (or in the cases of both Bono and Madonna, significantly change) pop culture for a generation or more. A Marketing Genius is still a genius. Even so, they both do more than just sing catchy pop songs and market themselves well. They -are- geniuses.
There's this assumption in our society that one is only smart or 'genius' if they are good only in math and lab sciences and are a member of MENSA, and if you do not have that then you aren't a genius. That's totally false. Not everyone can do quantum physics, but not everyone can produce stellar works of art either. Genius comes in many forms and flavors.
*kicks HTML tags*
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And honestly, at college, I saw a lot of really "smart" people on paper who were complete idiots at everything including getting their schoolwork done. Without discipline even a genius can't make it.
Reply
It is a little bit of a sore spot with me that folks don't get that being artistic is a form of being smart. You'll always hear "Yeah they're smart but can they do Physics?" when it comes to what is considered a qualifier for genius, but you never hear anyone say "Yeah that Hawking guy is pretty smart but can he paint the Sistine Chapel?"
What kills me even more is that there are so many famous geniuses who were not scientists. Beethoven, Van Gogh, Picasso, Mozart, Dali...but those aren't the ones who readily come to mind when the word "Genius" is bandied about. And one of the most famous geniuses of all, Michaelangelo, was both an artist and a scientist!
You're also totally right about discipline, not smarts, being the key to success.
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There are few true "Renaissance men" like Michaelangelo anymore. But I have heard them referred to as geniuses pretty often. It's frustrating because both sides don't really respect the other. You get a lot of art people who feel that the more pragmatic disciplines lack heart and any real connection to "the human condition." And don't get me started on the concept of "selling out" or the "art vs craft" fight.
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No worries, I won't go into the "Selling Out"/"Art Vs Craft" debates either. Those can get me even more riled up than this "Artist or Genius" farce.
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