Some Data and Analysis on Genre Identity/Preference in Tolkien Fandom

[dawn_felagund]

Over on the post about my paper presentation this weekend, the issue of genre was brought up because I didn't address it in the paper but I definitely asked about it in the survey. I decided not to include it in the paper because it involved defining and explaining terminology (genfic, het, slash) that I just didn't have time for, and I wasn't sure

Comments

[oloriel]

I think also my interest in slash was initially very particular--Maedhros/Fingon--I was new to The Silmarillion when I came to fanfiction and actually thought their relationship might be implied or construed as canon. Reading Tolkien's letters and his biography cleared that up for me pretty fast.

I continue to wonder. (I do not consider the biography reliable, since Carpenter clearly wrote what he thought Tolkien's readers desperately wanted to read. From the letters, we know that Tolkien was a fan of Mary Renault, too, so that suggests he at the very least wasn't stopped from enjoying a story if it had homosexual characters in it.) There are some pretty strong parallels between the Thangorodrim rescue and the Prometheus myth, along with some Ganymedes thrown in. Depending on how far you're willing to take those hints...

(After all, Tolkien was classically trained before he turned to Old English. He also played Mrs. Malaprop in a school performance of The Rivals. OMG TOLKIEN CROSS-DRESSED!)

I don't think Tolkien thought that out, of course. I mean, he doesn't really talk about sex much at all, heterosexual or otherwise, does he? It's pretty clear what Morgoth would like to do with Lúthien, for instance, but what the Silm says is that he "conceived in his thought an evil lust". We're left to ponder what that evil lust might be. (WHATEVER MIGHT IT BE.) The BoLT is only a little more explicit with its talk about crushing flowers. In LaCE we're told that "the union of love is indeed to [the Eldar] great delight and joy" (which is more than some conservative fans are willing to acknowledge! ;)), but just what exactly that union of love entails... we're supposed to guess for ourselves. There's no clear "insert peg A into slot B" anywhere, is there? There are no sex scenes anywhere, even between, Beren and Lúthien, or Galadriel and Celeborn, or Éowyn and Faramir (oh wait, THEIR HAIR MINGLES DRAMATICALLY IN THE WIND, THAT SAYS IT ALL). If there are no explicit heterosexual sex scenes, I don't think we should expect explicit homosexual sex scenes. Doesn't mean there's no sex happening -- of either kind!

[heartofoshun]

It is interesting also that Mary Renault until quite late in her life had only implied love scenes also. The Persian Boy goes a great deal further than her previous books in the direction of being explicit.

My main impulse when I first read Maedhros/Fingon in the texts is that it was obviously implied--that this would be less clear to me than it would have to Tolkien with his classical education and all. Hey, but what do I know? People still argue about the nature of the implied relationship between Achilles and Patroclus--which was obvious to me as an innocent Catholic schoolgirl. And so romantic.

Meanwhile, we have Tolkien's life-long belief in the fundamental and most satisfying friendships in life were among men (which could weigh the scale in either direction). Nothing sexual in his case onee presumes, but intense and limited to the same sex; which by my youth was strange indeed.

[oloriel]

I've always thought (though I'm not sure this would hold up to proper research! ;)) that in general, sex scenes became more explicit as the last century progressed. So initially, love scenes would happen off-stage or be implied only, and then it became more and more acceptable to describe the act.

Haha! I remember when that awkward Troy movie came out, some people were all "See? They're just cousins!" while others calmly pointed out that this just meant their love was incestuous on top of homosexual... (Hence the icon, of course.)

Not sexual, but certainly romantic, I'd think. And yes, kind of strange. But then, people believe all sorts of funny things about sex and love. In ancient Japan, it was well-known that true love was only possible between men, and only if one of them was superior in age or rank. Like, you had a wife because you needed children, but everybody knew that if you ever found romantic love, it would be with a man. Funny how things go.

[dawn_felagund]

Okay, Oshun's comment destroyed me, and this one put the nails in my coffin. I'm done. I didn't know that posting this long-ass table of dry data would end up making me laugh so hard!

Darth's 22 Words You Never Thought Tolkien Would Provide certainly suggests that, in the early years, Tolkien envisioned a world that wasn't quite as sexless as the canatics would like to think.

In LaCE we're told that "the union of love is indeed to [the Eldar] great delight and joy"

I remember being rather surprised that Tolkien was that explicit! This isn't the joyless for-procreative-purposes-only sex that, to take the word of more conservative writers, was all that existed in his world. And L&C isn't exactly an early text like the wordlists Darth used and so can't be so easily written off as inspired by the randiness of youth ... ;)

[oloriel]

And L&C isn't exactly an early text like the wordlists Darth used and so can't be so easily written off as inspired by the randiness of youth ... ;)

Well, it's the Jewish/ old testament stance on sex, really. The whole thing. "Sex is fun and meant to be, but only between married couples." (I am obviously paraphrasing.) So it means Tolkien isn't sticking to the Catholic interpretation (OMG!), but it's still a Biblical tradition. ;)