This discussion caused me to look in a different direction based on US history. So I dredged up a copy of the original Constitution and Declaration of Independence. What I found was a 99.9% lack of ANY references to religion in either document except for what I call "Manner of speech". Last paragraph in the Constitution reads "in the year of Our Lord," and in the Declaration there was use of 'our sacred honor'.
From history lessons back in the 60's we were taught that we fought for independence for many reasons. One was the right to practice our religious beliefs without persecution. However, where the issue under discussion runs into a wall of discrimination is from that group known as Organized Religion, which has for centuries oppressed, brain washed and harassed believers and unbelievers alike. The phrase "Religion is the opiate of the people" is all too true. Te assorted churches of organized religions have, for centuries, mashed their followers into little automatons and programmed them to respond to certain rituals, beliefs and thought patterns. Early on that was easy. Lack of education and joy in seeing gaudy, rich, ceremonial creations that they could participate in gave people a path to follow that promised them wonderful things if only they followed the churches rules. Frankly, this is true of the organized non-christian religions as well. There is great comfort for the majority of humanity to know that if they don't do X and always do Y they'll go to Heaven where everything will be all better. Somewhere in the last hundred years - mostly due to education - Organized religion has taken a gut punch and a lot of people are starting to ask questions. This is a good thing. It's also probably why all of a sudden we've had the great debate over prayer in school or in meetings and separating Church and State. Technically Church and State have always been separate but the traditions of a heavily 'christian' community in the early years of the US have followed along and are now perceived as having blended church and state. All of a sudden someone says "Hey, I don't wanna pray before homeroom" and the battle begins. The organized religions, Christian or not, WANT desperately to regain control. They'll do whatever it takes to achieve that goal. And thus we have a group of - for lack of a better term - VARIETAL BELIEVERS - who are really in a quandary about how things are going to affect them.
What am I? I don't know that I am anything specific. I don't practice any "organized religion", I don't go to any specific church and I generally find the term agnostic to be the least disturbing to folks when they ask what religion I am. I love that question - "What religion are you?". WOW - if I'm a religion does that make me a deity? Tricksy language - gotta love it. I'm inclined to believe there's 'something' out there that has an affect on us but whether it's a supreme being, Mother Nature or the Fates - I have no clue. Do I have a church - no. The outdoors is my church and the powers that be are everywhere in all sorts of form and function. I tend to prefer that things stay as simple as possible. Hammurabis code, the Yasa, the 10 commandments - all quite simple and easy enough to form a code for life with anyone. However, until the minority groups join together and beat the stuffing out of the Organized Religions I suspect there will be some sort of on going discrimination or persecution for a very long time. As long as we have organized religion we'll have war, persecution, hatred, enslavement and a few other nasty side effects. All very, very sad. My money is on Mother Nature and the next great climactic upheaval.... perhaps if anyone human survives things might be better in the next evolution. As for my favorite Felagundish Druid - I don't ever want to see you change - I like you just the way you are. You're welcome in my woods anytime.
What I found was a 99.9% lack of ANY references to religion in either document
Funny how that is. ;)
Somewhere in the last hundred years - mostly due to education - Organized religion has taken a gut punch .... The organized religions, Christian or not, WANT desperately to regain control.
Which is why I think that it's not coincidental that the politicians most closely aligned with Organized Religion are always the first wanting to eviscerate education budgets ... or, in the case of Bush 2, water down education to a series of standardized tests. So instead of learning to write and debate and think and being judged competent in English based on that, my students take standardized tests where they fill out bubble sheets on whether they can identify modifiers or prepositions. Very little higher-level thinking is involved. When my students first started with me, they rebelled against the idea that classwork could involve more than just worksheets, that it might involve research or discussion or watching a movie together. School is less than an experience to teach kids how to think and learn than it is a series of hoops to jump through to demonstrate factual knowledge. To me, that seems very dangerous because it leaves people open to those who would have them believe things like an earthquake being caused by the fact that a state legalized same-sex marriage. It teaches them that there are easy, authoritative answers to everything (that one can pick from a list of multiple choices!) rather than deep questions that they, as people, will spend their lives trying to answer.
But then, I am a radical, I suppose. ;) I'll keep teaching my students to think nonetheless.
My money is on Mother Nature and the next great climactic upheaval....
I saw an interesting bumpersticker at the farmer's market the other week: Mother Nature Bats Last. How true! And how scary for the majority of people who have no clue how to begin to take care of themselves when it's just them and Mother Nature.
Although generally a pie-eyed optimist, I do have an uncharacteristically negative view of humankind in general. It seems to me that we've evolved to begrudge our neighbor every extra bite of woolly mammoth drumstick ... or income or whatever other symbolic representation of what we need to survive. It seems to me that religious teachings make this worse, not better. Yes, they preach charity, but they also preach obedience, i.e., let's keep the masses quiet and passive and unquestioning while those in power rummage through their pockets and blame the poor person next door for why they're then starving.
As for my favorite Felagundish Druid - I don't ever want to see you change - I like you just the way you are. You're welcome in my woods anytime.
:D :D :D
I don't plan on changing ... evolving maybe. I hope to eventually outgrow my almost-30-year-old brain. ;)
With a few exceptions I tend to look at what is being 'taught' (sorry - that should probably read 'fed') in schools now as an education is no such thing. It appears to me to be a combination of 'pat answers' and a serious "dumbing down". Students are not taught to think, reason or question. As you said - they're taught to deal with bubble sheets and standardized materials. They use calculators in elementary school ..... why? Elementary school is where one should be learning the basics of math, language and such so they have the tools to expand their learning as they grow and can cope with life's little chores if they don't push their educational envelope or desire to become serious thinkers, or scientists or engineers or artisans of some sort. I am appalled at what is currently considered a high school education or a basic college education. I recall asking a child of about 8 or 9 if they knew their Multiplication tables. I got a blank look and a "We use calculators so we don't need to know those things." response. And I won't even get started on what passes for grammar and spelling these days or cashiers who are incapable of making change on their own. Big Brother - in the form of the unholy triumvirate of Government, Big Business and Organized Religion are aiding and abetting this dumbing down so they can control the majority of the great unwashed. Makes my blood boil...... Folks like us and your friends are victims of the policies and products produced by the Big Brother Triad because we just can't settle into the harness they offer. Part of me wants off the grid but other parts have become addicted by some of the B-B-T's lures like the internet and a small assortment of useful appliances and grocery stores.
So, PLEASE keep teaching those kids to think and encourage them to go out on an occasional limb to test out an idea or theory or just to try something different.
Mother nature and the next great climactic upheaval - assuming we survive would probably cost me the company of Himself. A lot of the marvels of modern medicine would go away in very short order. Refrigeration being one thing that we'd need if he had a way to get insulin. Thus I am semi-trapped. I am missing many of the basic skills to survive easily, but I can learn. However, it would do two very positive things. One thing would be the seriously overdue cleaning of the gene pool by eliminating those who are, for any number of reasons, incapable of taking care of themselves. Sounds cruel - maybe - but go take a look at Barb's clients at CHANGE. A few can give back a tiny portion of what they are provided with - others are simply a living , breathing parasite giving nothing and taking what could better be used for others. The second thing would be the potentially vast reduction in population and mankind's various ways of raping and pillaging Mother Earth. There might be some hope for the future that way.
A few years ago I came across a "Middle School Primer" from the early 1900's. It gave the requirements for graduation to what it called high school but was more likely the college level education of that time period. It was fascinating because many of the topics they required are now found only in college courses and some gifted college prep courses. Master's level work. Classes I never saw or had access to in my high school years. It explained quite clearly why a college degree in the early and mid 1900's was so very highly regarded. SIGH..
I like evolving - it's tantamount to learning new stuff. Maybe we can learn how to eliminate bubble sheets. Hopefully we can just learn to live if we lose the grid. I really should do some gardening.
From history lessons back in the 60's we were taught that we fought for independence for many reasons. One was the right to practice our religious beliefs without persecution. However, where the issue under discussion runs into a wall of discrimination is from that group known as Organized Religion, which has for centuries oppressed, brain washed and harassed believers and unbelievers alike. The phrase "Religion is the opiate of the people" is all too true. Te assorted churches of organized religions have, for centuries, mashed their followers into little automatons and programmed them to respond to certain rituals, beliefs and thought patterns. Early on that was easy. Lack of education and joy in seeing gaudy, rich, ceremonial creations that they could participate in gave people a path to follow that promised them wonderful things if only they followed the churches rules. Frankly, this is true of the organized non-christian religions as well. There is great comfort for the majority of humanity to know that if they don't do X and always do Y they'll go to Heaven where everything will be all better.
Somewhere in the last hundred years - mostly due to education - Organized religion has taken a gut punch and a lot of people are starting to ask questions. This is a good thing. It's also probably why all of a sudden we've had the great debate over prayer in school or in meetings and separating Church and State. Technically Church and State have always been separate but the traditions of a heavily 'christian' community in the early years of the US have followed along and are now perceived as having blended church and state. All of a sudden someone says "Hey, I don't wanna pray before homeroom" and the battle begins.
The organized religions, Christian or not, WANT desperately to regain control. They'll do whatever it takes to achieve that goal. And thus we have a group of - for lack of a better term - VARIETAL BELIEVERS - who are really in a quandary about how things are going to affect them.
What am I? I don't know that I am anything specific. I don't practice any "organized religion", I don't go to any specific church and I generally find the term agnostic to be the least disturbing to folks when they ask what religion I am. I love that question - "What religion are you?". WOW - if I'm a religion does that make me a deity? Tricksy language - gotta love it. I'm inclined to believe there's 'something' out there that has an affect on us but whether it's a supreme being, Mother Nature or the Fates - I have no clue. Do I have a church - no. The outdoors is my church and the powers that be are everywhere in all sorts of form and function. I tend to prefer that things stay as simple as possible. Hammurabis code, the Yasa, the 10 commandments - all quite simple and easy enough to form a code for life with anyone. However, until the minority groups join together and beat the stuffing out of the Organized Religions I suspect there will be some sort of on going discrimination or persecution for a very long time. As long as we have organized religion we'll have war, persecution, hatred, enslavement and a few other nasty side effects. All very, very sad. My money is on Mother Nature and the next great climactic upheaval.... perhaps if anyone human survives things might be better in the next evolution.
As for my favorite Felagundish Druid - I don't ever want to see you change - I like you just the way you are. You're welcome in my woods anytime.
Reply
Funny how that is. ;)
Somewhere in the last hundred years - mostly due to education - Organized religion has taken a gut punch ....
The organized religions, Christian or not, WANT desperately to regain control.
Which is why I think that it's not coincidental that the politicians most closely aligned with Organized Religion are always the first wanting to eviscerate education budgets ... or, in the case of Bush 2, water down education to a series of standardized tests. So instead of learning to write and debate and think and being judged competent in English based on that, my students take standardized tests where they fill out bubble sheets on whether they can identify modifiers or prepositions. Very little higher-level thinking is involved. When my students first started with me, they rebelled against the idea that classwork could involve more than just worksheets, that it might involve research or discussion or watching a movie together. School is less than an experience to teach kids how to think and learn than it is a series of hoops to jump through to demonstrate factual knowledge. To me, that seems very dangerous because it leaves people open to those who would have them believe things like an earthquake being caused by the fact that a state legalized same-sex marriage. It teaches them that there are easy, authoritative answers to everything (that one can pick from a list of multiple choices!) rather than deep questions that they, as people, will spend their lives trying to answer.
But then, I am a radical, I suppose. ;) I'll keep teaching my students to think nonetheless.
My money is on Mother Nature and the next great climactic upheaval....
I saw an interesting bumpersticker at the farmer's market the other week: Mother Nature Bats Last. How true! And how scary for the majority of people who have no clue how to begin to take care of themselves when it's just them and Mother Nature.
Although generally a pie-eyed optimist, I do have an uncharacteristically negative view of humankind in general. It seems to me that we've evolved to begrudge our neighbor every extra bite of woolly mammoth drumstick ... or income or whatever other symbolic representation of what we need to survive. It seems to me that religious teachings make this worse, not better. Yes, they preach charity, but they also preach obedience, i.e., let's keep the masses quiet and passive and unquestioning while those in power rummage through their pockets and blame the poor person next door for why they're then starving.
As for my favorite Felagundish Druid - I don't ever want to see you change - I like you just the way you are. You're welcome in my woods anytime.
:D :D :D
I don't plan on changing ... evolving maybe. I hope to eventually outgrow my almost-30-year-old brain. ;)
Reply
So, PLEASE keep teaching those kids to think and encourage them to go out on an occasional limb to test out an idea or theory or just to try something different.
Mother nature and the next great climactic upheaval - assuming we survive would probably cost me the company of Himself. A lot of the marvels of modern medicine would go away in very short order. Refrigeration being one thing that we'd need if he had a way to get insulin. Thus I am semi-trapped. I am missing many of the basic skills to survive easily, but I can learn. However, it would do two very positive things. One thing would be the seriously overdue cleaning of the gene pool by eliminating those who are, for any number of reasons, incapable of taking care of themselves. Sounds cruel - maybe - but go take a look at Barb's clients at CHANGE. A few can give back a tiny portion of what they are provided with - others are simply a living , breathing parasite giving nothing and taking what could better be used for others. The second thing would be the potentially vast reduction in population and mankind's various ways of raping and pillaging Mother Earth. There might be some hope for the future that way.
A few years ago I came across a "Middle School Primer" from the early 1900's. It gave the requirements for graduation to what it called high school but was more likely the college level education of that time period. It was fascinating because many of the topics they required are now found only in college courses and some gifted college prep courses. Master's level work. Classes I never saw or had access to in my high school years. It explained quite clearly why a college degree in the early and mid 1900's was so very highly regarded. SIGH..
I like evolving - it's tantamount to learning new stuff. Maybe we can learn how to eliminate bubble sheets. Hopefully we can just learn to live if we lose the grid. I really should do some gardening.
Reply
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