Comments | darthfox: international men's day, take 2

darthfox

international men's day, take 2

Nov 19, 2009 16:43

I confess I had only heard of this thing from my former classmate on the Facebooks. And it was asked of me on LJ what this actually is and who organizes it and so on, and so now I read the following, courtesy of Uncle Wiki:International Men's Day (IMD) is an annual international event celebrated on November 19. Inaugurated in 1999 in Trinidad and ( Read more... )

issues that don't go away: feminism, flames on the side of my face, only you can prevent misanthropy

Comments 10

ccr1138 November 19 2009, 21:59:45 UTC

I see exactly where you're coming from, but as the parent of a teenage boy, I can tell you that it's pretty harsh out there for males right now. My child has done nothing to deserve the scorn heaped upon him simply because he was born with a penis. I don't minimize the historic and ongoing oppression of women, but would it hurt to let boys know we value them, too?

ccr1138 November 19 2009, 22:49:09 UTC

Another thought: does it denigrate or diminish men when we celebrate the accomplishments of women? Then why the resentment when it's the other way around?

Yeah, so every day is Male Day and Caucasian Day and Straight Day etc. I contend you get far better results with praise than you do with approbation. Setting aside a day to say, "See, guys? This is how you do it. These men have the right idea," is not a terrible thing IMNSHO.

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ccr1138 November 19 2009, 23:16:13 UTC

Right. Unless we teach them, how will they learn?

I was having this discussion with my son the other night while we were watching The Taming of the Shrew (Elizabeth Taylor / Richard Burton). At first The Boy thought Katherina deserved to be kicked around. It took a while for him to understand that she (like all women of that time) had no rights, and was considered property of whatever man held her leash. While her sister was being sold off like a prize cow to the highest bidder, she was expected to marry an abusive stranger who didn't care anything about her except that her father was rich. Of course she was being difficult!

The play is misogynistic at its core, and ordinarily I wouldn't watch it, but it was a good conversation piece to get The Boy to see women as human beings with their own desires and goals, and not just objects for men to play with. Not sure he gets it quite yet; he's at that stage where Victoria's Secret models are still a bit of a shock to the system.

Thread 6

sowilo November 19 2009, 22:21:01 UTC

as [info - personal] cereta often takes pains to point out (and did just yesterday, in fact; LJ|DW), not fucking up is not an achievement, nor is it a contribution. You don't get a pat on the back for contributing yourself to your community, your family, your marriage, or the care of your own child. This would be going exactly as far as the call of duty.

My brother goes off on this. He is a very active parent, loves to spend time with his daughter and son and it makes him furious when he's out with them and someone says "oh, are you babysitting today?" he says "No! I'm PARENTING MY CHILD. I am their FATHER, not their babysitter".

like_achilles November 19 2009, 22:29:26 UTC

Dude. Thank you.

sanj November 20 2009, 00:40:02 UTC

I love you. And your cookies.

ellinor November 20 2009, 01:37:37 UTC

Your points are all well-taken, and for the most part, I agree with them, although I think they may carry more of an implication than I'd like that it's a zero-sum game, and that by celebrating men we somehow diminish women or intergender individuals. I don't think we diminish men when we celebrate women, so I would hate to think the inverse is true ( ... )

darthfox November 20 2009, 02:16:07 UTC

I don't think we diminish men when we celebrate women, so I would hate to think the inverse is true.

So would I, but I have an awful feeling it is. The thing is that because All Men All The Time is the default, Celebrating Women On Purpose winds up being celebrating women in addition to the customary celebration of men. Whereas if there's not a deliberate focus on women there's likely to be no focus on women, Celebrating Men On Purpose would likely end up being celebrating men instead of celebrating women. I like your idea that all other days should be Everyone Days, but right now, they're just not, are they? And I think part of the way to make that the case is to behave or at least speak as though it already were - but another part is to call the bullshitters on their bullshit. I wouldn't get a pass if I suggested it would be nice to have an event to celebrate white culture, and I wouldn't deserve one.

Improving men's lives doesn't mean harming women's.

Doesn't necessarily mean, I'd say. :-) But this is a good paragraph, ( ... )

ellinor November 20 2009, 04:28:58 UTC

"Doesn't necessarily mean," absolutely. Indeed.

One of the reasons you wouldn't get a pass for suggesting an event to celebrate white culture is that there's no such thing -- there are lots of different white cultures, lots of which get (and deserve) celebrations. But that's a side point, and I agree your main one is right. Heck, I'm glad for this whole International Men's Day thing just because it gave you a chance to call Bullshit. Wait, that came out wrong.

:)