"Pride" creates new shame in San Diego

[darrelx]

Pride is one thing... but thinking that an employer having an alternative lifestyle will excuse him or her (in this case a lesbian fire-chief) from being liable for sexual harrassment is just stupid

Comments

[badjahsensei]

“While I was sitting there waiting for the parade to start, I felt that I was forced against my will to be at the Gay Pride Parade and forced to see men in tight shorts dancing provocatively and other men kissing and hugging wearing sexually suggestive material on T-shirts with writing 'Girth and Mirth,' 'Suit Up Before You Dive In,' according to the complaint.

The horror. The horror. ;)

So firefighters are against fat guys (someone at Foxnews did bother to do a little research and find out what Girth and Mirth was, right? I know that being Foxnews, it's ultimately rhetorical, but I have to ask) and safe sex? :)

This could set an interesting precedent, though. It could mean that I could lay the claims for lawsuits where people's heterosexual lifestyle makes me feel uncomfortable. I'm all for it! :)

[jubeloh]

Don't be obtuse. The point of this whole issue was people being force to participate in something or face disciplinary action that could adversely affect their career.

Now, if you were being told to participate in a "Straight Pride" event, and refusal would adversely affect your career, then you would have a case.

[badjahsensei]

The point of this whole issue was people being force to participate in something or face disciplinary action that could adversely affect their career.

As someone working in an industry where outing myself was a chronic and perpetual job liability, I had to do just that--conform to heterosexist norms, as every day is straight pride day. Thus, a precedent here would be a small setback for the gay community, but a big gain in finally leveling the cultural playing field. If a court weighs in that enforcing sexual identity in the workplace is indeed sexual harassment, it's a huge gain in finally dismantling heterosexual privilege. Thus, a short term loss yields a huge long term gain. I'm cool with that, and I support these firefighters, as our fights are intricately locked together.

Remember, the first step to recovering from cultural privilege is acknowledging that you enjoy it in the first place.

[darrelx]

If a court weighs in that enforcing sexual identity in the workplace is indeed sexual harassment, it's a huge gain in finally dismantling heterosexual privilege.

Very well said. As long as people can logically argue the MERITS of the issue without slanting it toward their own preferences, the playing field can be levelled and fairness can emerge.

[martes]

They were discussing that case on the John & Ken Show earlier this week. I don't think anyone should be *forced* to do the gay pride parade any more than someone should be forced to attend a church as part of their job. I'm sure she could have dug up some gay firemen who'd be willing to do it gratis if she'd looked a little harder

[greenfish]

I totally agree with this comment. I would amend that to say, "I'm sure she could have found some firemen to attend," period. You don't have to be gay or straight to want to go, but your job shouldn't depend on it. It's job extortion.

[lizetta]

I'm interested in hearing more about this. The claims seem a bit odd, and difficult to substantiate. I do think that it is possible for someone to be discriminated against because they are heterosexual, but I don't see enough evidence here to show me that's what happened. I don't even see anything that bad in what they saw. I'm especially amused by the fact that if they had been women dressed that way, they would have been ordering chicken wings. I read this complaint in the UT, and they mentioned that men were telling them that "they could put out their fire any day" If their was a gay man who complained because he was put in a situation where a woman said that to him, I can only image that this would be laughed off before it ever became a motion. This wrap up, also in the UT, and written back on July 22nd, talks about people yelling "heros" at firemen as they went by

[darrelx]

What was actually said to them and what they had to endure at the parade is really non-sequitor... and anyone whose ever been to a pride parade (or driven a car in one like I have) knows that it is a borderline pornographic event, if not actually X-rated, and there is very little self-control being practiced on along the parade route

[krag_carbine]

This churns my stomach, being forced to do something because your boss happens to be something you aren't. And if you didn't cooperate, its your job.

Is it me? Or am I seeing more militant gays getting more and more demanding?

[lizetta]

What if it was a white firefighter who complained that they were in a parade in a black area?

[the_mcp]

Not equivalent.

Now, if it was a white firefighter being told by a black fire chief that "you will participate in the Jesse Jackson Rainbow Coalition march and rally next week", with the accompanying threat (implied or explicit) of being fired if they don't, then you'd have an equivalent situation. And that wouldn't be acceptable either.

[darrelx]

In that case, it'd be a case of a racist firefighter, but that is not an accurate analogy of what happened here.

What if it were a black firefighter being forced to be in a NAZI movement parade with the KKK on the sidelines? do you think that'd be ok?

These Firemen have the right to say they don't want to attend... State and federal laws governing the workplace *demand* that they have the right to say they don't want to attend. Their job duties as firemen have nothing to do with appearing in parades - that duty should be completely optional.

[esprix]

According to the article it was a local batallion chief that made the demand, not Jarman - she seems to be behind a full investigation, and rightfully so. I also note the unit was located along the parade route, so I could see the local chief wanting to make their presence known for community relations purposes, but I'll agree that forcing them to actually march in the parade does seem excessive.

As noted above, it sounds like there's going to be a lot of "who said what" going on, which is a shame. Pride is supposed to be just that - pride in one's self and one's community - and forcing someone to be involved kind of defeats the purpose of that, IMHO.