This is the edited and extended version of my WriterconUK talk on Modding Communities, given on Saturday, 15th August, 2009, at the Ramada Hotel, Coventry
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Search. Search again. Double and triple check. If it already exists but it's not being run as well as you think you could run it, ask yourself if it's worth fragmenting your fandom/pairing? Because it's very possible, even likely, that you will.
OMG, I cannot tell you how much this annoys me!!!! I notice it a lot more (and hence, I think I've become even more frustrated with it), since I've been keeping up several newbieguides. Whenever I see a new comm that is exactly the same as another comm, I want to pull my hair out, and ask the mods, is this really necessary?!! And for god's sake, if you'd done an interest search and the other comm would have popped up!! I mean, does a fandom as small as Leverage really need two Nate/sophie comms? Do we need two small fandom big bangs when it would be smarter (imo) to support the already existing one, instead? I just don't have the words for how much this phenomenon annoys me.
Tags.
Disorganized tag lists (I've seen tag lists with fic, fanfic AND fanfiction selections, as well as, as you've mentioned, several pairing options, john/rodney, pairing: john/rodney, fanfic pairing: john/rodney . . . ahhhhh!) are a bane on fandom, but even worse is having no tag list at all. I hatehatehate comms that are not organized in any fashion, so that if I join a new fandom, I have to go through every single entry to see if it's what I'm looking for. And when you're on dial-up, that's not as easy as it might sound. *g*
Interests.
I have not figured out why some comms refuse to include ANY interests at all, even the name of the fandom.
I had not considered, though, including an interest such as 'spike/xander fanfic' instead of merely 'spike/xander' and 'fanfic' separately. I'll have to rememdy that at my comms.
Not such a good idea is insisting on a personalised-by-you set of headers or a specific subject line item order (eg: TITLE, PAIRING, RATING, AUTHOR NAME, WARNINGS), with a threat to delete or refuse a moderated post for any slight deviation.
This is the only place I disagree with you. Not knowing what's hiding behind the cut or link is very frustrating to me, no matter whether it's a multi-fandom, single-fandom or pairing specific comm.
A subject line of 'new fic!' with no indication of pairing or rating makes me want to pull my hair out. Especially in a multi-fandom comm where you don't even know the fandom.
At batpack, for example, all we require in the subject line is the format (is it fic or icons?), the fandom and the pairing, though the poster can include additional information, such as title, rating, etc. I think that basic information is absolutely necessary, not only for the other folk in the comm to decide if they want to read it, but for the mods who are tagging/memorying.
It does become difficult, especially once you start expanding into more than one fandom, and especially, in my case, anyway, when you mod different types of comms. I require different subject lines for my flashfic comms than for my general fanfic comms, and depending on the fandom (ie, Shelter), because it's so small and has one main pairing, I only require the format in the subject line (whether it's fic or a wallpaper or a vid), for tagging purposes.
And yes, when posting to one of the many comms I belong to, I do occasionally have to check the profile to recall that particular comm's requirements, but imo, the benefits are worth the small output of effort.
That said, mods who are so rigid that they delete posts without notice or with cryptic comments like, 'you didn't follow the rules', are equally annoying. I would never delete a post without telling the poster EXACTLY what info they needy to include and giving them a chance to edit that post. In fact, in practice, I've given people multiple warnings and only started deleting their posts after that because they ignored them - not only did they not make the requested changes, they never replied to my comments at all. (To be honest, I think I was more annoyed at being ignored. *g*)
I mean, does a fandom as small as Leverage really need two Nate/sophie comms? Do we need two small fandom big bangs when it would be smarter (imo) to support the already existing one, instead?
*head desk*
I have not figured out why some comms refuse to include ANY interests at all, even the name of the fandom.
That boggles me, constantly. I can understand media-sharing comms wanting to stay under the radar, but it's a huge problem outside of that arena. How are we supposed to find your shiny comm if you don't put yourself on the map?
I had not considered, though, including an interest such as 'spike/xander fanfic' instead of merely 'spike/xander' and 'fanfic' separately. I'll have to remedy that at my comms.
I only really thought of this as I was writing up notes on Interests, but then it occurred to me that 'fanfic' is a wonderful catchall interest to have on a personal journal, but relatively useless for a comm.
Nobody in their right mind is going to search for the general 'fanfic' if they're looking for a specific fandom. (I just did, btw, and discovered that at least one person crossposts to two Draco/Ginny comms. LOL!)
This is the only place I disagree with you. Not knowing what's hiding behind the cut or link is very frustrating to me, no matter whether it's a multi-fandom, single-fandom or pairing specific comm.
I'm not saying 'don't insist on a meaningful subject line', I'm saying 'If you demand (on threat of deletion/refusal) a specific order to the subject line information, you will lose people.
A subject line with actual info in it is a must, but to dump a post if the author puts Title:Rating:Author:Pairing instead of Title:Pairing:Rating:Author... It's annoying and frustating and after having posts rejected by a moderator two or three times for that reason, I stopped crossposting to that particular comm.
I just want people to understand that decisions like that can and will lose a comm traffic, and if your corner of fandom is already pretty small, how many people can you afford to alienate before the community grinds to a halt?
Thanks for reading and commenting. :D
Way back when I was only running bloodclaim, I used to look at your collection of modhats and think 'That woman is insane!' And now I know... not better, but I know why you do it.
ETA: The subject line 'rant' also applies to headers. Headers are a necessary part of comm life, but to demand they be in a specific order (again, seen it done) will lose you posters.
I used to look at your collection of modhats and think 'That woman is insane!' And now I know... not better, but I know why you do it.
Because now you know I'm insane?!! *g*
Trust me, I've learned the lesson of thinking fandom needed a comm and jumping into it only to find out that I was really the only person who thought fandom couldn't live without that comm. *g*
I'm not saying 'don't insist on a meaningful subject line', I'm saying 'If you demand (on threat of deletion/refusal) a specific order to the subject line information, you will lose people.
I agree that being that obsessive will annoy and frustrate many people. That said, I'm anal enough to actually prefer a certain order because it's easier to find the information. (I don't always require it, but I do prefer it. *g*)
For my own fic, whether I'm posting in my journal or to a comm, I generally stick to the same format which I learned from the fandom cradle, so to speak (Fic: Fandom: Title Pairing Rating [Author, where appropriate]) so I'm partial to that format. Sometimes I wonder what people were thinking when they created their subject line, 'cause it looks like the info was just tossed in there willy nilly, and I'm a big fan of order. (That's my issue, I know, and I do try not to force it on everyone else. *g*)
Where I do insist on specific order to the subject line is at various challenge comms, where I think uniformity makes it easier for people to find what they're looking for, and it certainly makes it easier for me to tag, etc.
For example, at smallfandomfest, the subject line should read: Fic/Art, Fandom, Character/Pairing, Prompt. Again, it may be more important (or seem more important to the mod *g*) at a multi-fandom comm than a fandom or pairing-specific comm, but, um, yeah, sometimes I do insist. Though I don't delete posts if they're wrong; I do ask that the subject line be edited, and so far no one's told me to sod off everyone's been willing to play along. *g*
And as an aside, after posting my last comment and then wandering off to do some cleaning, I thought about some of the comms that I do belong to where the mod is VERY strict and basically has a "my way or the highway" attitude, and isn't afraid to tell you so. I'd like to think (maybe incorrectly) that most, if not all, of my requests are 'reasonable', and that I'm polite and understanding of newbies when enforcing the rules.
Though I will also admit that when someone uses the newbie card and says they didn't know, I do have to grit my teeth when politely suggesting that they read the rules on the profile before they post. *g*
Search. Search again. Double and triple check. If it already exists but it's not being run as well as you think you could run it, ask yourself if it's worth fragmenting your fandom/pairing? Because it's very possible, even likely, that you will.
OMG, I cannot tell you how much this annoys me!!!! I notice it a lot more (and hence, I think I've become even more frustrated with it), since I've been keeping up several newbieguides. Whenever I see a new comm that is exactly the same as another comm, I want to pull my hair out, and ask the mods, is this really necessary?!! And for god's sake, if you'd done an interest search and the other comm would have popped up!! I mean, does a fandom as small as Leverage really need two Nate/sophie comms? Do we need two small fandom big bangs when it would be smarter (imo) to support the already existing one, instead? I just don't have the words for how much this phenomenon annoys me.
Tags.
Disorganized tag lists (I've seen tag lists with fic, fanfic AND fanfiction selections, as well as, as you've mentioned, several pairing options, john/rodney, pairing: john/rodney, fanfic pairing: john/rodney . . . ahhhhh!) are a bane on fandom, but even worse is having no tag list at all. I hatehatehate comms that are not organized in any fashion, so that if I join a new fandom, I have to go through every single entry to see if it's what I'm looking for. And when you're on dial-up, that's not as easy as it might sound. *g*
Interests.
I have not figured out why some comms refuse to include ANY interests at all, even the name of the fandom.
I had not considered, though, including an interest such as 'spike/xander fanfic' instead of merely 'spike/xander' and 'fanfic' separately. I'll have to rememdy that at my comms.
Not such a good idea is insisting on a personalised-by-you set of headers or a specific subject line item order (eg: TITLE, PAIRING, RATING, AUTHOR NAME, WARNINGS), with a threat to delete or refuse a moderated post for any slight deviation.
This is the only place I disagree with you. Not knowing what's hiding behind the cut or link is very frustrating to me, no matter whether it's a multi-fandom, single-fandom or pairing specific comm.
A subject line of 'new fic!' with no indication of pairing or rating makes me want to pull my hair out. Especially in a multi-fandom comm where you don't even know the fandom.
At batpack, for example, all we require in the subject line is the format (is it fic or icons?), the fandom and the pairing, though the poster can include additional information, such as title, rating, etc. I think that basic information is absolutely necessary, not only for the other folk in the comm to decide if they want to read it, but for the mods who are tagging/memorying.
It does become difficult, especially once you start expanding into more than one fandom, and especially, in my case, anyway, when you mod different types of comms. I require different subject lines for my flashfic comms than for my general fanfic comms, and depending on the fandom (ie, Shelter), because it's so small and has one main pairing, I only require the format in the subject line (whether it's fic or a wallpaper or a vid), for tagging purposes.
And yes, when posting to one of the many comms I belong to, I do occasionally have to check the profile to recall that particular comm's requirements, but imo, the benefits are worth the small output of effort.
That said, mods who are so rigid that they delete posts without notice or with cryptic comments like, 'you didn't follow the rules', are equally annoying. I would never delete a post without telling the poster EXACTLY what info they needy to include and giving them a chance to edit that post. In fact, in practice, I've given people multiple warnings and only started deleting their posts after that because they ignored them - not only did they not make the requested changes, they never replied to my comments at all. (To be honest, I think I was more annoyed at being ignored. *g*)
Again, fabulous essay! Thanks for sharing it. *g*
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*head desk*
I have not figured out why some comms refuse to include ANY interests at all, even the name of the fandom.
That boggles me, constantly. I can understand media-sharing comms wanting to stay under the radar, but it's a huge problem outside of that arena. How are we supposed to find your shiny comm if you don't put yourself on the map?
I had not considered, though, including an interest such as 'spike/xander fanfic' instead of merely 'spike/xander' and 'fanfic' separately. I'll have to remedy that at my comms.
I only really thought of this as I was writing up notes on Interests, but then it occurred to me that 'fanfic' is a wonderful catchall interest to have on a personal journal, but relatively useless for a comm.
Nobody in their right mind is going to search for the general 'fanfic' if they're looking for a specific fandom. (I just did, btw, and discovered that at least one person crossposts to two Draco/Ginny comms. LOL!)
This is the only place I disagree with you. Not knowing what's hiding behind the cut or link is very frustrating to me, no matter whether it's a multi-fandom, single-fandom or pairing specific comm.
I'm not saying 'don't insist on a meaningful subject line', I'm saying 'If you demand (on threat of deletion/refusal) a specific order to the subject line information, you will lose people.
A subject line with actual info in it is a must, but to dump a post if the author puts Title:Rating:Author:Pairing instead of Title:Pairing:Rating:Author... It's annoying and frustating and after having posts rejected by a moderator two or three times for that reason, I stopped crossposting to that particular comm.
I just want people to understand that decisions like that can and will lose a comm traffic, and if your corner of fandom is already pretty small, how many people can you afford to alienate before the community grinds to a halt?
Thanks for reading and commenting. :D
Way back when I was only running bloodclaim, I used to look at your collection of modhats and think 'That woman is insane!' And now I know... not better, but I know why you do it.
ETA: The subject line 'rant' also applies to headers. Headers are a necessary part of comm life, but to demand they be in a specific order (again, seen it done) will lose you posters.
Reply
Because now you know I'm insane?!! *g*
Trust me, I've learned the lesson of thinking fandom needed a comm and jumping into it only to find out that I was really the only person who thought fandom couldn't live without that comm. *g*
I'm not saying 'don't insist on a meaningful subject line', I'm saying 'If you demand (on threat of deletion/refusal) a specific order to the subject line information, you will lose people.
I agree that being that obsessive will annoy and frustrate many people. That said, I'm anal enough to actually prefer a certain order because it's easier to find the information. (I don't always require it, but I do prefer it. *g*)
For my own fic, whether I'm posting in my journal or to a comm, I generally stick to the same format which I learned from the fandom cradle, so to speak (Fic: Fandom: Title Pairing Rating [Author, where appropriate]) so I'm partial to that format. Sometimes I wonder what people were thinking when they created their subject line, 'cause it looks like the info was just tossed in there willy nilly, and I'm a big fan of order. (That's my issue, I know, and I do try not to force it on everyone else. *g*)
Where I do insist on specific order to the subject line is at various challenge comms, where I think uniformity makes it easier for people to find what they're looking for, and it certainly makes it easier for me to tag, etc.
For example, at smallfandomfest, the subject line should read: Fic/Art, Fandom, Character/Pairing, Prompt. Again, it may be more important (or seem more important to the mod *g*) at a multi-fandom comm than a fandom or pairing-specific comm, but, um, yeah, sometimes I do insist. Though I don't delete posts if they're wrong; I do ask that the subject line be edited, and so far no one's told me to sod off everyone's been willing to play along. *g*
And as an aside, after posting my last comment and then wandering off to do some cleaning, I thought about some of the comms that I do belong to where the mod is VERY strict and basically has a "my way or the highway" attitude, and isn't afraid to tell you so. I'd like to think (maybe incorrectly) that most, if not all, of my requests are 'reasonable', and that I'm polite and understanding of newbies when enforcing the rules.
Though I will also admit that when someone uses the newbie card and says they didn't know, I do have to grit my teeth when politely suggesting that they read the rules on the profile before they post. *g*
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