I can't believe I'm haunted by Asano Taeko even when I'm not watching her.
Seven eps into IS and I almost don't want to watch anymore, because it's becoming increasingly clear that my OTP isn't the OTP and WHY DOES THIS ALWAYS HAPPEN TO ME.
( Read more... )
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As for everything else... you certainly aren't obligated to like her, but I think you're reading things into her behavior that aren't there. She didn't slit her wrists because of Haru. She slit her wrists because she's a lonely fucked-up teenager with this huge secret she doesn't know how to handle. She only figured it out, what, a year ago? And she hasn't had support from anyone. Her parents lied to her and ignored her, her only friends were creepy older guys at a bar. She was so desperate for affection and understanding that she changed schools to meet a stranger on the off-chance they would make a connection through being IS. That isn't psycho, that's just sad.
I definitely don't think she's dangerous. The worst thing she's done is send that letter, and if soccer boy's father wasn't a judgmental prick, that wouldn't have done any harm either.
(I'm not saying it was right, mind, it was a total breach of privacy and my reaction to it was "OH MIWA NO." But dangerous? Hardly.)
As for all her attention-seeking... you have to remember she's a freshman in high school, fifteen or sixteen at most. Teenage girls are pretty much universally like that, much less teenage girls who have been lied to their entire lives about their own bodies. Miwa may be melodramatic about her parents ("they don't understand me!!") but she certainly isn't wrong. Her anger and bitterness is completely justified. Is it any wonder she acts out against him?
So, yeah. You see crazy. I see crazy too, but an understandable one that doesn't have to be permanent. Miwa just needs to grow up a little, come to terms with her IS. She'll be fine.
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Second, I will answer properly, but it's really late, I'm tired and I can't think straight anymore. I'll do it first thing tomorrow, promise.
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Regarding Sousuke, I didn't mean to imply that Miwa is like Sousuke (I haven't even seen Last Friends), I just meant my feelings towards Miwa's fans are probably similar to yours towards Sousuke's. Or at least they were yesterday night. XD
She didn't slit her wrists because of Haru. She slit her wrists because she's a lonely fucked-up teenager with this huge secret she doesn't know how to handle.
It's kind of hard to discuss this because this is a jdrama which means it's all about being pretty and dramatic, but come on, one slit over one wrist? That seems like the average teenage suicide attempt aimed less at dieing than at attention. It might not have been for Haru only, I'm sure Miwa mostly wanted to scare her mother, but Haru definitely was someone she wanted to worry about her. And it worked, she did get the attention, even if it was only temporary. Okay, she doesn't walk around with knifes or hammers [and yes, I went too far saying she might kill Haru - I'm sorry :( ], but I can see her walking into traffic or something if she feels like no one listens to her again. That's why I think she's dangerous.
The worst thing she's done is send that letter, and if soccer boy's father wasn't a judgmental prick, that wouldn't have done any harm either.
If I remember correctly, this is exactly the outcome Miwa had planned. Why else would she have done it?
They talk about it at the end of ep06. Miwa says Haru and Soccer Boy breaking up would have happened sooner or later anyway (implied: because of Haru being IS), so better end it now while it won't hurt as much. Haru answers "It wouldn't have been like this." Well, no guarantee on that, but it's possible, who knows. Miwa replies "Then you're okay telling lies?", and that is fighting dirty, because Miwa knows exactly that that is Haru's weak spot. Haru wants people close to her to know about IS, best from the first meeting; Miwa wants no one to know. I guess it's a YMMV thing, but I think the best course of action is to lie and get people to know you (and for you get to know them) until you can be somehow sure they like you well enough as a person to stomach IS without running away. And the thing is, Soccer Boy might very well reach that point, might even be there already, and Miwa knows it. Why do you think she sent the letter to the father? It would have been easier to destroy the relationship and Haru's faith in humanity (in less drastic terms: to get them to break up and remind Haru that not everyone will understand and accept IS) if Soccer Boy was the one to reject him and be disgusted. But she couldn't be sure Soccer Boy would react that way, so she had to take the detour over the father. Miwa breaks them up knowing there was a good chance it could have worked (maybe because of that, see below) and then has the audacity to tell Haru the relationship was doomed anyway.
Moreover, I'm not entirely sure about why she wanted the two to break up. It might be because she's jealous of Soccer Boy, but I think in part it's because she didn't want to be proven wrong. Say Haru had told Soccer Boy about IS and Soccer Boy was fine with it - it would have been yet another example for how Miwa's "You can't tell anyone! People don't accept us!" attitude is wrong, or at least not correct in general. It would mean that IS persons can have a "normal" life, that some people might accept them as they are, that they aren't aliens who have to live alone and in constant hiding with no one to trust except themselves and other IS. It would mean Haru doesn't need her.
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In my interpretation of the drama, killing herself was not Miwa's goal. It looked very dramatic, but to me it didn't seem like her life was on the line, probably not even if she hadn't been found until later. And as I said in my comment (the second part), I also don't think she thought something like "let's shock everyone!", I do think it was subconscious - your average overly emotional teenager who thinks he wants to commit suicide, but can't bring himself to cut deep enough, to put it crudely. Committing suicide is not easy. The subconscious will to live is very strong; slashing open your veins is not something you can just do on a whim. The way I see it, the moment Miwa put the blade against her arm she must have realised she wouldn't be able to actually kill herself and still she cut herself, not deep enough to do any actual damage yet deep enough to look dramatic. In other words: for attention.
However, this whole interpretation of the scene as "at no time her life was on the line" is very YMMV and you're welcome to think differently. This point is truly as ambiguous as they get.
if someone attempts suicide for attention and because they feel unloved, I would say thats TOTALLY valid. No matter WHAT the reason someone commits suicide they are still COMMITTING SUICIDE.
I don't agree. I think people who commit or earnestly attempt suicide are assholes; I think people who attempt it but aren't serious (people who want the attention) are even bigger assholes. That's my life philosophy, not something that's limited to this drama. I gather from your comment that you think differently, which is fine. The topic has been discussed people far more knowledgeable than you (no offence) and I, and I don't think there is a right or wrong view on this. To each his own.
I find it gross that you imply because she did it "for attention" or for the "wrong" reasons...
To clarify: I do think she did it for attention.
I don't think she does it for the wrong reasons. In my philosophy, there are no reasons to commit suicide, neither valid nor wrong. Don't do it, period.
... that she somehow is the worst...
Well, following my above mentioned view on the matter, she is. *shrugs*
... and didnt deserve any attention or care that she got.
I don't deny her the attention she got. Miwa's situation is fucked up, she gets a lot of pressure from her mother and god knows that woman is... urgh, I'm lacking words. So, yeah, Miwa deserves people worrying about her. I just don't agree that (threatening to) kill yourself is the way to go.
Would it have been better if she died?
No.
In general: No one should die. That's why no one should attempt suicide. Duh.
In this case: as I said, I don't think she was anywhere close to dieing. Neither did she really want to (as I said, maybe she thought she wanted to, but deep down she probably didn't) nor was she in immediate danger to (as far as circumstances go).
She is a disturbed person and needs help.
Yes. Does she get it after slitting her wrist? No. Seems like that was not a good way ask for it.
She has a very real reason for her mental illness, its not uncommon for LGBTQ teens to suffer from a myriad of mental issues because of the stigma placed on them by society.
Agreed. I'm not sure if she has a diagnosable mental illness, but she certainly has serious problems and deserves people to help her figure them out.
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also livejournal cut off part of my ccomment when i said there are people like miwa in real life who are like her, i meant that if you knew someone like that suffering in the real world would you hate them too? but you answered that already in your above comment. you would. and that makes me sad.
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Again, that's not what I'm trying to say. I don't think a person is bad, is a lesser being for attempting suicide, successful or not. I said they're assholes (pardon my french), as in, people I don't like because they have certain character traits I don't agree with. Kinda like people who drive so close behind me I can't see their bumper anymore. It doesn't mean the person and all he does is condemnable, it just means that they do stuff I really can't stand.
In my opinion, suicide is egoistic. Whatever kind of problems a person has and whatever kind of pain they go through, I think that by killing themselves they inflict far more pain on others. I don't endorse that kind of behaviour.
I used to think like you too when I was young because I understood nothing about life and because i hadnt yet experienced depression and mental illness. Its easy to look at people who find life unbearable and say they are weak when they try to die but thats only something a person from a privileged position can say. someone who's never felt like dying. and there are people with serious mental illnesses that are untreated or the pills dont help or even make it worse.
This... look, I enjoy discussions, I honestly do. Yes, including this one; I might not agree with you, but your point is definitely interesting and it makes me think and clear my own view on the matter. But there are rules when it comes to arguing. "You have no idea what you're talking about" is not a valid argument, and implying I only think like I do because I understand nothing about life is an insult. I don't appreciate it.
i meant that if you knew someone like that suffering in the real world would you hate them too?
Hate is a big word. I don't hate Miwa, I just said I don't like her. How do you read that as "bclar hates everyone who suffers"? If someone has problems and I'm in a position to help, be it by action or just by giving advice, I do it. If I feel like the person doesn't give a damn about my efforts, making me feel like whatever I do won't change anything, I might (mind you, might - it still depends heavily on the case) leave them alone. I'm no saint, my patience is limited.
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I won't argue with that. That's the fun about dramas, books, movies etc., that not everyone interprets them the same. Miwa has done some stuff (and what exactly that is is written the above and below comment) that seriously goes against my personal beliefs and morals, and if your own beliefs and morals are different from mine and Miwa stays on the good side of them, so be it. Doesn't make either of us a better person.
believe it or not there are people like Miwa in the real world.
Truth be told I don't get you are trying to tell me with that.
"People like Miwa", you mean IS people with a lot of pressure from all sides? Teenagers who feel misunderstood? People who attempt suicide? People who are all three? Sure, why not? I don't think that Miwa or her situation is an overly artificial creation and no one would ever act like her. Did I say something to that effect?
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I don't exactly disagree with this - I can see it too - but I feel like we're miles apart when it comes to her motives. Does she actually, honestly want to die? I doubt it. But I don't think her problems can be boiled down to just wanting Haru's attention. (Did she even know Haru would rescue her? It's been awhile since I watched ep 3, but didn't Haru come to a dramatic realization in the middle of something else and rush off to Miwa's house while she was isolated and alone thanks to psycho mama?)
Even if you take her suicide attempt as nothing more than a cry for help, the fact that she was willing to slice her wrist open for a little attention means there are serious issues in that head of hers, way more than just wanting her crush to notice her, IMO. Again, I point my finger at her parents. Mom's a fucking nutcase, dad never spent time with her at all until her rendezvous with the razorblade. They both lied to her for sixteen years. The only positive attention she ever received was from creepy drunks, and even then she knew they would reject her if they knew what she really looked like under her clothes. Is it any surprise she latched onto Haru - an open, honest person who never asked her to hide herself and practically beat down her door when she was in trouble? He cared. He was probably the first person in a long time who did.
So about this:
Moreover, I'm not entirely sure about why she wanted the two to break up.
I think her jealousy makes perfect sense. Haru was supposed to be her knight in shining armor, but then he turns around and falls for someone else, someone who doesn't even share what Miwa considers their binding secret. Here she thought she finally had someone who understood her - someone she could trust - and then he broke that trust by falling for an outsider.
I'm not saying it's fair or reasonable for Miwa to think like that, just understandable.
If I remember correctly, this is exactly the outcome Miwa had planned. Why else would she have done it?
Oh no, I agree. Miwa got exactly what she wanted with the letter. But you can't blame her for dad's reaction. She sent the letter and it was wrong, but her plan wouldn't have worked at all if dad hadn't been an interfering, secret-keeping homophobe. That burden is on him alone.
(Going on down to the next comment...)
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I agree wholeheartedly. She didn't do the wrist stunt for Haru only, it was mostly for her parents (I kinda keep forgetting her father...), but Haru probably was a factor (how big of a factor exactly... we could discuss for hours on end, but frankly I don't think my grasp on canon is firm enough to go into detail there). Even if he hadn't found her, he would have heard about it sooner or later and come rushing. And she has serious issues, no doubt there.
I agree with the rest of your comment, too, just the last part:
But you can't blame her for dad's reaction. She sent the letter and it was wrong, but her plan wouldn't have worked at all if dad hadn't been an interfering, secret-keeping homophobe. That burden is on him alone.
I don't blame Miwa for dad's reaction. I don't blame the father either; from our perspective it might have been "the right thing to do" to let the kids date, but that's not how the world/Japan/fathers work.
Basically it's the question about whose the fault the atomic bomb is: the engineer who constructed it, the admiral who made the decision to use it, or the soldier who pressed the button.
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So what does she do about it? She follows him, sends him mails, takes up as much of his time as she can. I guess it's personal opinion, but I find it not romantic. In this case I think it's plain annoying. After all, it's not that Haru dislikes her, he just has more in his life than her. But okay, Haru doesn't seem to mind, so there.
At no point in the drama do I get the feeling that Miwa loves Haru, neither in the "true love" sense nor even as a friend. She sees him as a comrade in arms, as someone who is in a similar situation, but not as a person. Does she ever try to get to know him? Does she care about what he likes or not? All their interactions are either discussions about IS or Miwa dragging him along, taking cell phone pictures and buying friendship bracelets. To me that looks like pretend play, just like Miwa's mother decking Miwa and her room in ruffles, lace and flowers, and it's entirely Miwa's idea of fun. Haru doesn't seem to care much about it. (Those other girls from school act similarly girly, and it's obvious that Haru considers them more like pets than friends.) Does Miwa even think about playing soccer with him, or watch a match, or do anything else Haru might have fun with? No. And why should she? She doesn't have to make Haru like her, doesn't need to find similarities between them. They're already there.
Soccer Boy, on the other hand, might have no personality, but in my experience that's not how teenage crushes work anyway. When I was a teenager my crushes were totally random. My hormones didn't care about whether a guy had personality or looks and whatever - shoot first, ask questions later, so to speak. So yeah, Soccer Boy might not appeal to us grown-up folks, but I can see a teenage girl crushing on him.
TL;DR: The reason I don't like Miwa isn't just because she's clingy and emo and craving attention, it's because she's egoistic and immature. It's not that I think Miwa is calculating. Most of what I described of her motifs and way of thinking above is subconscious, and I do think that during puberty, teenagers don't exactly think straight. However, all that is, while an explanation, not an excuse. Yes, she will probably grow out of it (god do I hope she does), but until then I want to throttle her whenever she appears.
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Someone else said this too, so I hope you don't mind if I c/p my answer:
She sought him out because of his IS, but she's said several times that she admires his strength and straightforwardness and the kind of person he is. She enjoys his company and spending time with him. He saved her from a suicide attempt! She likes him for plenty of reasons beyond "your junk kinda looks like my junk."
Adding to that, you can just tell that Miwa is happy around Haru. She beams, she bounces, she wants to share lunches and buy them friendship bracelets and take cellphone pics so they can be BFFs forever. I don't see her interest in him as creepy. When you're crushing on someone, it's natural that you want to learn everything about them.
Now, if you want to talk about how healthy their relationship is, that bit could definitely use some work. Miwa needs to drop out of Bella Swan classes and stop defining herself by the person she loves. She needs to consider his feelings more, and like you said, it wouldn't hurt if she showed some interest in his hobbies and passions too.
But I definitely think she genuinely likes him - and that we've seen plenty of evidence of it - and that the two of them could be happy together once they outgrow some of their issues.
Her reaction (yelling at Haru's mother, running away) is in my eyes not only because she's surprised and overwhelmed by the crazy, it's because she realises that Haru doesn't need her like she needs him.
Or because she just had the shattering realization that her life didn't have to be the way it was. Think about it - she was dealing with IS alone and in secrecy. Her parents were crazy. She was angry and betrayed and upset. In attempting to deal with it all, she turned the blame outward - at society for making IS such a dirty little secret, at other people for being small-minded and unaccepting. It was all because she was born intersex. If she'd been a normal girl everything would have been fine. It was IS' fault.
Then she meets Haru and realizes it isn't true. Here was someone just like her, but instead of being miserable and misunderstood, he was happy and well-adjusted and his family loved him and had no trouble accepting him exactly how he was.
What does that say about Miwa's life? About the way her parents treat her?
I think part of the reason she insists on being cynical is because she's invested so much in it being the "right" way to look at things. To admit that she's wrong now means accepting some really uncomfortable truths about herself and her family. There's this great quote by Baldwin James - "I imagine that one of the reasons that people cling to their hates so stubbornly is because they sense, once hate is gone, that they will be forced to deal with the pain."
I think that's Miwa's problem in a nutshell. She doesn't want to be a psycho stalker, but what's the alternative? Admitting that her mother doesn't love her? Acknowledging her own flaws and shortcomings and realizing that she has to let go of Haru, the only thing that's made her happy in ages?
I do think that during puberty, teenagers don't exactly think straight. However, all that is, while an explanation, not an excuse.
I bring up the teenager thing because I see a lot of my own cringe-inducing adolescent bullshit in Miwa. When I was sixteen I also thought tattoos were the coolest rebellion ever and that my parents had no idea how to understand my deep tortured soul. In Miwa's case, though, it's true.
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As for Miwa's treatment of Haru and their friendship, I was wondering whether maybe she just doesn't know how to be friends. The stuff she does is so contrived, it looks like she just imitates what she has seen other people do. Maybe she doesn't consider Haru's interests because she just never thought of it. She really needs people to explain the world to her.
Ooooh, I really like your reasoning for Miwa's running from Haru's family. I hadn't thought about that. Very nice.
The fact that they're teenagers actually explains a lot, so.
Oh, and sorry for spamming your inbox and turning your sandbox into a mud pit above. Why do I keep doing stuff I feel the need to apologise to you for? XD
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