Doctor-Companion meta
More Donna thoughts~
So, Donna has self confidence issues, partly to do with her mother, doubtlessly partly to do with many other things, but Turn Left and Journey's End make it clear she does. as Ten.5 observed, she 'screams at the universe, because who would listen otherwise? And why should they?' Even in SitL/FotD she makes similar comments, like ditching on herself for her 'ideal man'.
It's been observed how terrible it was to wipe Donna's memories in JE because she 'finally realized how brilliant she was'. I say...no, she didn't. Yes, she was confident and awesomesauce as DoctorDonna, but that's not because she realized she really was special and brilliant on her own. Comments like "See, I really get this stuff now" and similar she made through the explanation and BWB suggest to me, that she found a self-worth in the fact that she was now as clever (cleverer) and brilliant as the Doctor. She wasn't 'just a temp' anymore, she was an impossible, fantastic human-Time Lord metacrisis with access and understanding of the whole entire universe.
When she argued that she'd rather die than go back, she didn't argue she'd rather die than forget how amazing she was, she didn't want to 'go back'. She couldn't bear to go back to living that dull, empty life she had (and why should she? Losing all the memories of the wonders of the universe forever? Terrible.). I don't think there's really enough of her in EoT 1/2 to say if she realized how awesome she was on her own later, but the fact that Wilf thought she was sort of...'drifting' and unhappy doesn't imply she found a grand and fulfilling life for herself, even with Sylvia's support. Though this may have changed later.
In fact, I think, the only time Donna truly felt she was and could be important and brilliant and amazing all on her own was Turn Left. When she chose to go back and save the world and bring back 'the Doctor's world', I think there she truly believed what Rose said about her being brilliant and special.
This...makes an interesting thought for me.
Even though the Doctor showed Donna 'a better way of living her life', turned it all around from empty temping to saving the universe, he never really seemed to succeed in showing her how brilliant she was. He thought she was brilliant, completely. He even told her that as Ten.5, but I don't think she really believed him.
Yet Rose, with only a few brief meetings, showed a woman with none of the other Donna's experiences, who hadn't saved entire races and seen the universe and saved planets and the universe, that she was amazing and could make a difference just exactly as she was.
Rose says "That's what the Doctor does, he shows you you're brilliant", but I'm not so sure that's actually true. He brings out that brilliance, yes...but honestly? I don't think he does much of a job of turning a mirror on the companion and going "Look at you! You are amazing!"
It makes me consider...is this the same, at least in NuWho, with the others? Mickey found his own way to being more than the Tin Dog, the Doctor refused to acknowledge that at all until he did it himself. Martha decided she was 'too good' to pine after the Doctor after going on a trip on her own and saving the world herself, without the Doctor. It's hard to say about Rose. She seemed to get it, and come onto her own because of the Doctor, instead of in spite of him, but then again so did Jack, who clearly accredited the Doctor for his change.
So, perhaps it's just Ten (and we've yet to see about Eleven) who failed at it? Or perhaps Rose and Jack both had 'wake up's I'm forgetting or we missed. To be fair, Rose flails at Christmas Invasion, but she's already said in PotW that "He taught me a better way of living my life etc"
What do you think? I'm not saying Rose is wrong that he shows people how to be better, leads them on the road to being amazing...
But does he actually show them it?
And if not, what's it say about Rose that, in so short a time, she could do for Donna what the Doctor never could?
So, Donna has self confidence issues, partly to do with her mother, doubtlessly partly to do with many other things, but Turn Left and Journey's End make it clear she does. as Ten.5 observed, she 'screams at the universe, because who would listen otherwise? And why should they?' Even in SitL/FotD she makes similar comments, like ditching on herself for her 'ideal man'.
It's been observed how terrible it was to wipe Donna's memories in JE because she 'finally realized how brilliant she was'. I say...no, she didn't. Yes, she was confident and awesomesauce as DoctorDonna, but that's not because she realized she really was special and brilliant on her own. Comments like "See, I really get this stuff now" and similar she made through the explanation and BWB suggest to me, that she found a self-worth in the fact that she was now as clever (cleverer) and brilliant as the Doctor. She wasn't 'just a temp' anymore, she was an impossible, fantastic human-Time Lord metacrisis with access and understanding of the whole entire universe.
When she argued that she'd rather die than go back, she didn't argue she'd rather die than forget how amazing she was, she didn't want to 'go back'. She couldn't bear to go back to living that dull, empty life she had (and why should she? Losing all the memories of the wonders of the universe forever? Terrible.). I don't think there's really enough of her in EoT 1/2 to say if she realized how awesome she was on her own later, but the fact that Wilf thought she was sort of...'drifting' and unhappy doesn't imply she found a grand and fulfilling life for herself, even with Sylvia's support. Though this may have changed later.
In fact, I think, the only time Donna truly felt she was and could be important and brilliant and amazing all on her own was Turn Left. When she chose to go back and save the world and bring back 'the Doctor's world', I think there she truly believed what Rose said about her being brilliant and special.
This...makes an interesting thought for me.
Even though the Doctor showed Donna 'a better way of living her life', turned it all around from empty temping to saving the universe, he never really seemed to succeed in showing her how brilliant she was. He thought she was brilliant, completely. He even told her that as Ten.5, but I don't think she really believed him.
Yet Rose, with only a few brief meetings, showed a woman with none of the other Donna's experiences, who hadn't saved entire races and seen the universe and saved planets and the universe, that she was amazing and could make a difference just exactly as she was.
Rose says "That's what the Doctor does, he shows you you're brilliant", but I'm not so sure that's actually true. He brings out that brilliance, yes...but honestly? I don't think he does much of a job of turning a mirror on the companion and going "Look at you! You are amazing!"
It makes me consider...is this the same, at least in NuWho, with the others? Mickey found his own way to being more than the Tin Dog, the Doctor refused to acknowledge that at all until he did it himself. Martha decided she was 'too good' to pine after the Doctor after going on a trip on her own and saving the world herself, without the Doctor. It's hard to say about Rose. She seemed to get it, and come onto her own because of the Doctor, instead of in spite of him, but then again so did Jack, who clearly accredited the Doctor for his change.
So, perhaps it's just Ten (and we've yet to see about Eleven) who failed at it? Or perhaps Rose and Jack both had 'wake up's I'm forgetting or we missed. To be fair, Rose flails at Christmas Invasion, but she's already said in PotW that "He taught me a better way of living my life etc"
What do you think? I'm not saying Rose is wrong that he shows people how to be better, leads them on the road to being amazing...
But does he actually show them it?
And if not, what's it say about Rose that, in so short a time, she could do for Donna what the Doctor never could?