Random Thoughts Largely Related to Boys Over Flowers

Feb 18, 2009 09:00

1. It's rather neat to see Jun Pyo growing up in this latest ep. Since Ji Hoo is already a grown-up, that will bring the total of grown-ups in F4 to two. Heh ( Read more... )

boys over flowers, something happened in bali, evil parents, doramas, iljimae

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meganbmoore February 18 2009, 15:21:16 UTC
I'd guess that the problem with the violence is that the initial violence is the harassment of a young woman that takes on both physical and (intended) sexual forms, unless the kdrama seriously toned it down, and that the romance is between the victim of the violence and the person who instigated it, even if what was actually done wasn't always his intent.

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dangermousie February 18 2009, 15:27:35 UTC
You are being a lot more thoughtful than KBC, trust me. I got the sense it's any violence in general - in the latest ep there was a pickpocket who got out a knife (until being kicked in the face by Shigeru) and they blurred out the blade. LOL. Oh, and kdrama did seriously tone it down - the one bit of violence that was bad was after the fake photos or when that model with a grudge had his goons beat up JP in front of Jandi and it was fairly typical in set-up of various kdramas: i.e. heroine gets mistreated and hero goes to the rescue. Nobody objected to A Love to Kill when Shin Minah got in between Rain and gangster and got kicked in the ribs until Rain rolled over and protected her with his body - that was a heck of a lot more graphic and violent than BOF (not to mention that half the set-ups for kdramas are a lot more 'disturbing' than anything in BOF - take ALTK again - Rain decides to get close to SMA to wreck her life and then they fall in love and there are attempted suicides and God knows what ( ... )

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timescout February 18 2009, 15:34:39 UTC
No, the object to the mutual and quite normal kiss btw JP and Jandi in ep 10 - they had to cut it way down because oooooh, immoral - teens might actually move their mouths a little when they kiss.

Ummmm... Gasp, I didn't need TV to know how to kiss properly. Does this mean I'm a bad, bad girl?

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dangermousie February 18 2009, 15:46:21 UTC
LOL - I learned it on my own (well, with help :) too. Clearly I am going to hell!

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ETA dangermousie February 18 2009, 15:48:21 UTC
I am so amused that at the end of NGs at the end of ep 14, the director is telling LMH (during the filming of cabin kiss scene) to close his mouth and yells cut when that doesn't happen. LOL. Clearly, normal kissing patterns and kdrama kissing patterns are in two different universes.

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meganbmoore February 18 2009, 15:40:59 UTC
I suspect some of it is that HYD's target audience is probably 15-18 year olds, while ALTK's is 20-30~ year olds. While it's (I hope) true that most teens won't see that behavior and decide that it's OK and accept it (or any sort of more likely RL equivalent) in their own lives, there's a greater chance of a 16 year old imprinting on bad behavior being ok than a 23 year old.

And (regarding Iljimae or various other sageuks) it may also be that the violence is domestic, and more "real." The chances of getting involved in a swordfight or stumbling across an assassin today are very, very slim, but your chances of getting mugged or being the target of bullying or sexual harassment or having a physically or emotionally abusive boyfriend, etc., are pretty decent.

And, of course, I'm partially just regurgitating my own reasoning on various things, too.

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dangermousie February 18 2009, 15:45:43 UTC
Iljimae's most disturbing aspects so far are pretty realistic though - a helpless woman's rape by the man in power. Police brutality and beaurocratic indifference. Picking on others because they are different, etc. Oddly, it's a lot more realistic drama than BOF.

I think all your points are super-valid btw. I just don't see the censors thinking it through that much (or even if they did, I don't believe in censorship unless there is no artistic merit anywhere. Not to mention that this version is super-tame compared to the Japanese or Taiwanese ones).

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meganbmoore February 18 2009, 15:53:51 UTC
I don't believe in censorship, but I do believe that creators should be aware of the messages they they send, and that the audience should try to be aware of the messages they receive. People take a lot from fiction, usually subconsciously. (But both ends are responsibility for your own actions, not someone else controlling them.) But, then, as you said earlier, I doubt they're actually thinking on the level of "What if some 15-year-old ends up in an abusive relationship over this?" (though that also has the old standard of 'women can't think for themselves" going) but are probably thinking of the level of "Oh noes! What if they think premarital sex is ok!" or some such.

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dangermousie February 18 2009, 15:56:12 UTC
People take a lot from fiction, usually subconsciously

Oh God, and now I am reminded of creepy fanbrats thinking the rapist hero of Haou Airen is romantic and desirable. Ugh.

Btw, if this version of Iljimae ever comes out on discs with subs, it is very much your thing - the vibe, oddly, reminds me of Damo. And there are strong women galore! (Side note: why are women uniformly awesome and strong in period kdramas but a much more mixed bag in contemporary ones? I have no idea).

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meganbmoore February 18 2009, 16:15:41 UTC


I have PLENTY of thoughts about your sidenotes. A lot of them boil down to the fact that modern things just go with the status quo and don't really think much about how they're writing and portraying women because, being set in modern times, well of course they'll automatically being writing them as strong and equal and blah blah blah. But something (or at least, something decent) in a historical setting is usually aware that they're operating in a setting where there's a huge power and social imbalance, and so they take conscious steps to make sure the women don't fade into the background or be treated as secondary. Like, I don't think Dae Jang Geum is particularly feminist or anything, but part of what makes it interesting (though probably not for you) is that it deliberately takes a setting where the plot would normally be all about men with beards and hats sitting around and plotting and makes the focus all about the unimportant "domestic" roles of women ( ... )

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dangermousie February 18 2009, 16:53:47 UTC
If you watch Hansungbyulbok, let me know how it is - it's short and I heard such excellent things about it.

One of the things I love the most about women in period kdramas is that the strength comes in all kinds - you can have women warriors like the heroine of Damo or Sujini from Legend, but you can also have women who are strong in other ways: power of their conviction and strength of character (Capital Scandal) or their intellectualism and smarts (like Iljimae's OTP in this version or the heroine of Emperor of the Sea, which I need to finish) or their skills (like heroine of DJG it seems like or the doctor heroine of KOTW), or even pure strength of character (like Iljimae's mother). There isn't a 'one mold fits all' approach.

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meganbmoore February 18 2009, 16:59:43 UTC
One of the things I like about EOTS is that, as the series evolves, Jung Hwa's relationship and eventual rivalry (that you can be powerful and successful without being corrupt) with Lady Jami, the woman who raised her, becomes just as important as Bogo and Yum Moon's plot.

There seems to be a much better understanding in sageuks that not everyone is the same and you don't have to code exactly one way to be strong. Now for other things to catch on to that.

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